Heating control options

[reb78]

So not as simple as the title sounds. We have our main house and then five holiday cottages fed from three oil fired boilers. One boiler does two properties each. The POs linked the heating in each pair of cottages for some reason but we have a plumber gradually working through them putting zoning valves on so that we are able to heat one without having to heat another if it is empty.

Its all fine in the summer as the heating is rarely on, but in the winter, everything is on timers that are in the cottages and locked away - if they werent there would be no point renting them as some guests would have the heating on and windows open as they arent paying... plus, its a complete waste of oil.

What is out there that will enable us to remotely monitor and control the heating? Even while we are out preferably. I am not being a skin flint, but we are not leaving the heating on 24/7 so need some way to monitor the temps and put the heating on without having to go into the cottages when a cold spell hits.

I have looked at the BG Hive stuff, but I think for five properties it will work out expensive! What other options are out there? We can connect them to a wireless network.

 

[Dave-sparks]

Rather than domestic smart thermostats in each house you may be better off looking at a small commercial type BMS system (building management system)

 

[knighty]

do you have wifi at all the cottages?


to keep it simple....

have a standard programmable thermostat in each cottage, so you can have set temperatures for set times - means you don't need a timer for the boiler, can set when it turns on and off and what temperature to maintain - will also have frost protection so can come on and prevent pipes freezing in the winter

add wifi thermostats so you can monitor the temperature remotely (just for piece of mind)

then add simple wifi switches to turn the heating on or off

can control it all from your phone - or have a spare phone in and draw just for that

plus wifi thermostats and switches are cheap

all depends on wifi tho... if you have wifi everywhere let me know and I can get some links for stuff for you?

 

[addjunkie]

So not as simple as the title sounds. We have our main house and then five holiday cottages fed from three oil fired boilers. One boiler does two properties each. The POs linked the heating in each pair of cottages for some reason but we have a plumber gradually working through them putting zoning valves on so that we are able to heat one without having to heat another if it is empty.

Its all fine in the summer as the heating is rarely on, but in the winter, everything is on timers that are in the cottages and locked away - if they werent there would be no point renting them as some guests would have the heating on and windows open as they arent paying... plus, its a complete waste of oil.

What is out there that will enable us to remotely monitor and control the heating? Even while we are out preferably. I am not being a skin flint, but we are not leaving the heating on 24/7 so need some way to monitor the temps and put the heating on without having to go into the cottages when a cold spell hits.

I have looked at the BG Hive stuff, but I think for five properties it will work out expensive! What other options are out there? We can connect them to a wireless network.

I feel your pain we were victim to a thermostat / control fiddler last week. Ill now have to check at each change over. Our is wet underfloor so just leave it on all the time.

The only advantage I can see of pairing up your house and a cottage is the cottage buys all your oil as you never have your heating on!

 

[JimmyS]

How have you got the zone valves wired? have you got signal wires from the end switches to fire the boiler/s?

If its just for frost protection can you not just fit frost stats and pick up the switchwires to fire the boilers.

You could fit some sort of BMS but it can get quite expensive for trying to save money on oil etc.

If you need remote monitoring and control then its often cheaper to get boilers with that facility - ie Viessmann or similar rather than getting a BMS installed but sounds like its a bit late for that. You could do it with KNX or one of the other home automation systems as well but the costs are all a bit steep.

 

[sg66]

Net connected stats you can monitor and turn on off as required, if you have means of switching them on manually as zones now should be reasonably straight forward

 

[Mikes]

Dave-sparks has the right idea. Get a proper little BMS system and you will be able to have far better control and features than any of the overpriced 'smart' controls. Could even take it one step further and have a heat meter fitted within each property so you could apportion the useage to each and charge accordingly (meters need to be OFGEM approved for this). Are the three boilers linked to give optimum control and resilience or is it three stand-alone systems?

 

[carbon]

As you Wi-Fi you could use home assistant. It can be run from a raspberry pi and can be accessed locally or remotely if required or from a phone. As you are having zoning valves fitted its possible to operate them with either a sonoff or Shelly device. It’s not plug and play though but has powerful automation options. I believe there are a lot of devices that can be used with it but I like to use d1 mini or nodemcu devices with sensors connected, no need to have actual room thermostat’s that can be messed with.

 

[RBDIVE]

Have a look at the inspire heating control system in particular the landlord lord version . I use this for a holiday let. And its sync to the calendar. But main useful features are the ability to set min an max temperature. Lock functions from guests and hou can set temperature alarms which email you if a certain temperature is reached you can also set a frost setting to any temperature you desired.
No yearly subscription or othe fees just a one off purchase

 

[knighty]

I think this is all getting complicated.... all he needs to do is turn the heating on and off remotely

if he has wifi, a wifi switch is the easiest way

 

[daedalusminos]

^^^ This. It's how I control my heating - ok it's a smart socket (SmartThings) but it just replaces the main CH timer - can override at will.

 

[Kayos]

5 x nests would be cheaper than a bms system, I honestly don't think a bms will actually give you what you want

Im having one built right now, controls 5 heatpumps (n+1 for redundancy) that heats a buffer and 2 that heat cylinders for water

All the bms has to do is keep either a buffer or 2 cylinders at a pre-set temp, no further external inputs or controls

£55k.....

 

[mike os]

nest or hive , cheap, simple install and work

 

[sg66]

Or honeywell

 

[daleyd]

How much time do you have to devote to it and how interested are you in tinkering?

If the answer is not much to both questions then an off the shelf system would be your best bet (eg hive/nest) - but obviously you will pay for this ease of use.

If you don’t mind tinkering around and have some time to devote then you could have a mess around with other options eg raspberry pi based or something similar. But be aware you could end up down a rabbit hole with this if your not that way inclined, not that it’s particularly difficult but it can be a bit overwhelming.

 

[JimmyS]

5 x nests would be cheaper than a bms system, I honestly don't think a bms will actually give you what you want

Im having one built right now, controls 5 heatpumps (n+1 for redundancy) that heats a buffer and 2 that heat cylinders for water

All the bms has to do is keep either a buffer or 2 cylinders at a pre-set temp, no further external inputs or controls

£55k.....

I'd agree - BMS systems are often a bit clunky and always bloody expensive for what they do. You'd probably end up spending multiples of the amount of energy you might save buying the system. Normally with Heat Pumps you find the BMS is doing virtually bugger all except switching things on and off. The heat pumps normally just look after themselves.

 

[sako243]

5 x nests would be cheaper than a bms system, I honestly don't think a bms will actually give you what you want

Im having one built right now, controls 5 heatpumps (n+1 for redundancy) that heats a buffer and 2 that heat cylinders for water

All the bms has to do is keep either a buffer or 2 cylinders at a pre-set temp, no further external inputs or controls

£55k.....

I'm in the wrong game / charging too little...

 

[Dave-sparks]

5 x nests would be cheaper than a bms system, I honestly don't think a bms will actually give you what you want

Im having one built right now, controls 5 heatpumps (n+1 for redundancy) that heats a buffer and 2 that heat cylinders for water

All the bms has to do is keep either a buffer or 2 cylinders at a pre-set temp, no further external inputs or controls

£55k.....

For a bells and whistles systems built by a BMS specialist that not surprising.

But for what is needed here a setup based on a mini-PLC such as the Siemens logo with a few sensors should be all that is required, and the average electrician will be able to put it together and program it easily.

 

[Kayos]

For a bells and whistles systems built by a BMS specialist that not surprising.

But for what is needed here a setup based on a mini-PLC such as the Siemens logo with a few sensors should be all that is required, and the average electrician will be able to put it together and program it easily.

My point is the BMS I need has no bells and a distinct lack of whistles, its as basic as it can be

 

[Dave-sparks]

My point is the BMS I need has no bells and a distinct lack of whistles, its as basic as it can be

£55k isn't a basic price!

If it is really as basic as you are suggesting why does it even need to be a BMS? A simple PLC based control panel would do the job.