hardfacing

[flash of light]

i was looking at the price of hardfacing rods and was wondering if there is a cheaper way to weld up a digger bucket. heres one idea : grind grooves on bucket then lightly dust the grooves with Anthracite (which is 91% carbon) then weld over top, i wonder if that would give you a harder weld.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Are you thinking the anthracite will blend with the weld metal?
I think what you'd find is that it will contaminate the weld.
Don't imagine it's the sort of thing you cut corners on, they take a heck of a pounding.
Do you do bucket repairs for a living?

 

[rtbcomp]

If you do achieve a good weld I suspect it would harden at the junction between the parent metal and the weld and not penetrate through to the outside of the weld, which is where you want the hard surface.

 

[PTvor]

Isn't there a bit more to hardfacing rods than a bit of extra carbon, like chromium or chromium carbide and there are various types of hardfacing rod for different applications. What if this experiment doesn't work or only seems to work?

I think you're better off and it probably works out cheaper, to buy the proper stuff to do the job.

 

[TechnicAl]

As far as Im aware anthracite is carbon (coal). Its incredibly difficult to get carbon to pass through the arc and into the weld metal. High carbon deposits are usually attained by using Chromium Carbide added to the coating. This is what makes them expensive. There are firms that weld through Chrome Carbide using ms wire but its usually done sub arc (so you can set the stick out / trevel speed as you cant see the arc). The welds are not pretty. They are much better if they use a flux but they are trying to keep the costs down. That is the problem with MIG, you cant keep a constant stick out / travel speed.

Are you doing these professionally ?

 

[flash of light]

i dont weld professionally anymore,(and its not because i tryed welding with coal ) but do a bit now and again at work. just got some worn buckets that need a bit of meat on. perhaps i should try some experimenting on a test piece. thanks for all the replys.

 

[Omniata]

More than likely any "coal" you apply to the surface will be burnt off during welding and add porosity to the weld...

To add "hardfacing" material, as others have said, you'll have to use a specific rod or wire containing the required alloy...

IMHO the majority of the cost of these will be the production as they're extremely difficult to machine...


Fair enough to creating a "test piece", however, I wouldn't try something that hasn't been done professionally on a piece of professional equipment if it's likely to add a weak point and cause it to fail...
Just my humble opinion...

 

[CTB]

Fair enough to creating a "test piece", however, I wouldn't try something that hasn't been done professionally on a piece of professional equipment if it's likely to add a weak point and cause it to fail...
Just my humble opinion...

Omni, hardfacing, or hard surfacing isn't really structural as such. It deposits a layer of an extremely hard wearing metal on to areas of high wear on a piece of heavy equipment, such as the lip area between replaceable bucket teeth, the sides of loader buckets, the C frames on dozers etc. When used on bucket and frame sides most people run long x beads. The area between the x's build up with dirt and protect the steel underneath from abrasive wear.

I used to hardface loader buckets after my normal shift running a cat. For some reason the head welder thought it beneath him. (actually all it is is running long beads, must have been too boring for him), and I used to have great fun putting x's and o's the sides

 

[Omniata]

CTB, my reply was in light of what the OP had originally posted about cutting grooves and applying coal, then weld beads along them...

The grooves with a poorer quality weld would effectively act as "cracks" and the forces akin to "crack propagation" would result...



I'm aware of the use of hard-facing and why, no offence implied or intended

 

[CTB]

Sorry, I misunderstood your reply

 

[PTvor]

i dont weld professionally anymore,(and its not because i tryed welding with coal ) but do a bit now and again at work. just got some worn buckets that need a bit of meat on. perhaps i should try some experimenting on a test piece. thanks for all the replys.

Well, I know that the management of companies can live in their own world, but I must admit that I find this slightly odd. If this company you work for, or are associated with, is involved in a business operating equipment with digger buckets then there must be amounts of money sloshing around which dwarf the cost of a few packets of the proper rods to maintain them.

So, they can either buy the proper materials for you to use, or pay someone who specialises in this work to do it, or not maintain the machinery and face the consequences. In any case, I can't see that it makes any sense for you to experiment with unconventional welding techniques.

Or have I missed something? I often do.

 

[TechnicAl]

I used to get paid for doing these experiments. We used to have wonderful time trying all sorts of weird ideas. I moved on but the ideas seem to re-emerge every few years. I had a boss who wouldnt believe me when I told him we had tried that and it failed.

Remember we have been welding for a long time now. We have developed lots of processes and techniques that work. Some ideas didnt work and were dropped which is why no-one does whatever it is.

I will give you a tip. Sugar adds more carbon than coal or graphite, didnt try diamonds for obvious reasons.

A better tip is to use commerically available products....they definitely work.

 

[graffian]

As far as Im aware anthracite is carbon (coal).
Are you doing these professionally ?

Or you could put a fern leaf on the part weld over it and in 300 million years it would have been have been coal, if you hadn't burned it.