Handrail posts

[Thrashsmith]

With regards to traditional forged domestic handrails is there a rule of thumb for how many vertical posts there should be going down into the steps?

I'm always a bit bemused by the extreme variations I see. Some houses have posts every few feet apart, some just one at the top and one at the bottom, whilst some have 2 posts per step!

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. I've tried to spot a recurring theme based on the numbers or size of steps, but it seems to be artbitrary. Sometimes the shorter run of steps have more posts than that longer run of steps?!

I am not talking about protection from falling and Building Regs affects of railing spacings.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Personal choice, conservation, cost, well designed, badly designed, professional, amateur and probably a couple more I can't think of at the moment.

When I did railings and steps I was often amazed by the back of a cigarette packet design they wanted me to make, convinced it would look perfect when in fact it was horrendous and at times dangerous.

My pet hate was turning up to measure for a front gate, the house would have perfectly squared hedges, not a curve in sight anywhere and they wanted quite a high bow top gate extending above the hedge height...yuk!

 

[Thrashsmith]

Personal choice, conservation, cost, well designed, badly designed, professional, amateur and probably a couple more I can't think of at the moment.

Thanks. I suppose what I'm most getting at is there a structural rule of thumb?

Up and down flex in a handrail feels disappointing if the posts are very far spaced apart, so post spacings should prevent that.

I guess also the larger number of posts the less sideways strain each one takes - I'm imagining someone large holding on whilst going down the steps and slipping and yanking the handrail sideways.

 

[pedrobedro]

They have to be far enough apart or close enough together so a child can't get their head stuck (Small dogs may also come into consideration but not so much)

 

[EAZEE]

I used to work for a firm that makes playground equipment in Kettering and the spacing was 100mm to each centre of the infills on all slide handrails and railings.

 

[Thrashsmith]

I am not talking about protection from falling and Building Regs affects of railing spacings.

They have to be far enough apart or close enough together so a child can't get their head stuck

I used to work for a firm that makes playground equipment in Kettering and the spacing was 100mm to each centre of the infills on all slide handrails and railings.

I think you're both talking about Building Regs Doc K (or M, can't remember which) subsection on Protection from Falling and infill panels of railings at 100mm gaps above 600mm, which isn't what I'm getting at.

I only mean the structural posts that fix into the step and for the purposes of this question there are no infill panels of railings to span between the posts.

 

[Kent]

No regs on newal post spacing. There are on strength. That said you won't shift a proper fixed in handrail with just top and bottom newal if they are fixed right.
Consider however the transportation and the handling aspects during fitting (this is paramount)

 

[bletchmonster]

I think the main deciding factor is the post fixing. Cosmetics apart, if the handrail is solid on two posts it's ok. The trouble is the amount of times your expected to make it safe by fixing to a flaky sandstone flag/step that's sat on a bit of crush and run, or the bricky built the steps with 20 to 1 mortar.

 

[Kent]

Bottom newal into 3ft concrete top fixing 4x m10 studs in resin (stone wall of house). Perfectly strong enough, livelihood of breaking the steel before fixing gives. Good luck getting that to fit with two rope newal on old stone steps

 

[slim_boy_fat]

@Kent I like the last giving a helping hand.....

 

[Kent]

This has two newals and is a lot smaller

 

[Thrashsmith]

Thanks for the replies folks. Your 1st picture @Kent benefits from having a high up fixing point against the wall. The situation that's of more concern to me is when there's only ground fixing points.
I think I've sussed out that posts about 1 metre apart is a minimum for preventing handrail flex as you push down/pull up on it (unless there's a infill panel between like your pics, Kent). It seems numbers of posts is mainly an aesthetic thing.

 

[cumbriasteve]

It seems numbers of posts is mainly an aesthetic thing.

What you have to remember is the making of gates and railings is a popular money maker for anyone with a welding set, even more so now with the ease of purchase of component parts.

Just about anyone can make something that looks like they are skilled at the trade.

Where it goes wrong is the fitting of these items and the design of construction to be fit for purpose.

I have seen gates and railings held up with rawlplugs, infill panels nailed to posts, not to mention numerous rawlbolt cracked copings and step edges.

So quite often the design is not for aesthetic reasons it's because the maker did not have a clue.

 

[Kent]

Thanks for the replies folks. Your 1st picture @Kent benefits from having a high up fixing point against the wall. The situation that's of more concern to me is when there's only ground fixing points.
I think I've sussed out that posts about 1 metre apart is a minimum for preventing handrail flex as you push down/pull up on it (unless there's a infill panel between like your pics, Kent). It seems numbers of posts is mainly an aesthetic thing.

Yes quire so the second has 4x m10 stud 100 mm deep on each foot plate resin fixed. It's small but such a fixing would also be sufficient for a darn sight longer run. Once it got to say 8-10 ft run I might put another borrow foot in place, will see if I can pick up a photo of that. However remember that is all one might need (albeit deeper) to hold a large automated gate up which will be under constant strain. Correct anchor fixing is the most important bit look up the shear force of a single m10

 

[Kent]

What you have to remember is the making of gates and railings is a popular money maker for anyone with a welding set, even more so now with the ease of purchase of component parts.

Just about anyone can make something that looks like they are skilled at the trade.

Where it goes wrong is the fitting of these items and the design of construction to be fit for purpose.

I have seen gates and railings held up with rawlplugs, infill panels nailed to posts, not to mention numerous rawlbolt cracked copings and step edges.

So quite often the design is not for aesthetic reasons it's because the maker did not have a clue.

Quite so if you do what everyone else does and leave the location without a signed order preferably with a deposit your unlikely to ever get that job. Doing something better and different is key