Getting car repair panels to fit

[Stewart Sims]

OK so, you may have seen from my introduction I have pretty limited experience in metalwork and welding but looking to learn as much as possible.

My first question is - what methods would you use to get car repair panels to fit? It seems very likely on older cars that depending on quality of the parts and condition of the vehicle some adjustment is always going to be needed.

The first one to do in my case a slightly thicker panel under the wheel arch which doesn't fit easily (made even trickier by restricted access). Is it normal to hammer and/or cut a repair panel into shape, and if so what tools and methods would you use?

 

[rikrobson]

I'm restoring (very slowly) a Ford Capri. As per regulation its wings are rusty and require replaceming. I have aquired a pattern part whitch obviously as per regulation does not fit.

The problem areas for the panel are inner wing rail, front valance join and rear fillet.

The fillet was removed and welded to the A pillar this leaves a remainder lip of the fillet that is easier to work and will get sheeted over later.

I got the front falance to fit snugly with a bit if tin bashing.

Then it can to the wing rail.

this sould be a 90 degree dog leg, from the wing to the rail and is then spot welded on.
The dogle was angles at about 80 degrees. So the was hammered to 90 degrees along the original lines. This has had the effent of raising up the wing and the valance now does not fit.

Therefore the next stage is to re hammer the rail return to match the profile of the wing rail and it should fit.

So in answer to your question you will need to use a hammer and dolly to get the correct shape and maybe some cutting and rewelkding in order for the panel to fit correctly.
Is it the inner wheel arch? Can you cut out the offending rust holes back to good metal and then fit a patch made from the replacement panel?

 

[steveo3002]

yeah its expected to have to make them work , cut and alter or a good block of wood and hammer etc

 

[ian f]

i'm no expert but i realized a long time ago that in the time it takes for a so called pattern part to arrive. and when it did it looked had little resemblance to the original that i could make something better myself so that's what i do now. my panels aren't perfect but i think they're as good as most pattern panels

 

[Stewart Sims]

OK this is good to know.

Its a supporting panel which is actually behind the inner wheel arch, and unfortunately there's been some slightly shoddy patching over rust previously which now means a good amount of new metal needs to go in. As the panel was available and relatively cheap I ordered it, along with some others I'll need later. Although with the others I might just have a go at patching or making up a panel and stick the 'pattern parts' on ebay instead. There's definitely something appeals about not having to rely on availability of replacement parts, but I'm sure it'll take time to build up the necessary skills.

 

[Onoff]

I've got 3 Capris in various states of disrepair.

With the repro wings allegedly the formers used aren't as accurate to start with as the OEM ones so they wear leading to poorer and poorer tolerances over time. Getting them to fit can thus be an issue. I've even seen people take the "good bits" off the pattern wing and add it to original one. With pattern wings edges on door gaps may need to be built up etc by adding metal to the edge or slitting and opening up then welding up the slit. I think the Pound coin is the preferred gap gauge on the Capri!

The only ones I hear good things about are here but make sure you've deep pockets:

http://www.steelpanels.co.uk/

 

[rikrobson]

yup steel pannels use the original tooling apparently. but at over £600 per wing its a little too rich. The nearside wing needs rplacing too, but i have a wing removed from a car so i'm hoping its a better fit, or it will get cut up and patched in.

I was going to do 6mm gaps.

What car are you working on Stewart?

 

[pedrobedro]

Welding clamps, vice grips and hammer usually get me by along with various pieces of 2x1, 3x2 and scissor jack for pushing things into place. An old screwdriver (with the end sharpened to a point) is a handy tool to have as well for pushing edges down while tacking.

 

[Stewart Sims]

Thanks for the useful tips so far, makes me realise that you can be quite resourceful with limited tools. It's an MG Midget Rik. Came here because a lot of MG enthusiasts seem less keen on tackling bodywork themselves so wasn't getting much advice from the clubs etc.

 

[Bobtail4x4]

you mean the car sos programme, where he just bolted panels to an escort and didnt jig it, was faked??

 

[Onoff]

yup steel pannels use the original tooling apparently. but at over £600 per wing its a little too rich. The nearside wing needs rplacing too, but i have a wing removed from a car so i'm hoping its a better fit, or it will get cut up and patched in.

I was going to do 6mm gaps.

What car are you working on Stewart?

There was a feature on them about their set up in one of the classics magazines. On top of the original tooling where it's not available they apparently take original panels and make moulds using some sort of super tough resin impregnated concrete. A number of the top draw resto boys use them.

 

[mike 109444]

Stewart you may see from time to time this http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/65793?page=1 link mentioned. Worth a good read when you have time.

 

[ford34/2]

Thanks for the useful tips so far, makes me realise that you can be quite resourceful with limited tools. It's an MG Midget Rik. Came here because a lot of MG enthusiasts seem less keen on tackling bodywork themselves so wasn't getting much advice from the clubs

I passed a Garage yesterday in Nice, France, well I passed it a few times in the last few days. They had at least 9 MG cars, midgets etc, guessing all late 50s early 60s. Its called Garage Gallieni and its on Ave Gallieni you can see it on google maps. Stood a while having a peek or two quite fascinating.
www.mgospares.co.uk keep a good range of stuff, sometimes compatable with the Rover V8,3.5 engines. Used them a few times. Near Cambridge--Swavesey

Stan

 

[rikrobson]

is it a coincidence that the re is a rover p6 3500 outside the garage in Nice and you mentioning the engine?

 

[Stewart Sims]

We've been away to a few different parts of Europe over the last couple of years and each time we spotted 60s MGs about - seems older British cars are well loved in other European countries!

Back on the subject of getting panels to fit - I think I'm making good progress on this piece. Hammered out a section which I intend on overlapping with the remains of the existing panel so I can fit it in place and managed to knock and lever it past the trickiest obstructions. Still needs some adjustment but much more confident now I've given up the notion of being 'precious' about these panels.

What do you think about pop-riveting panels into place before welding? Thought it might be useful for bits of the floor and sill, but maybe its better to clamp instead?

 

[Onoff]

I wonder if a lot of MG owners shy away from repairs when they can just save up and buy a complete heritage shell! Mind you you can now do the same with the Old Mustang.

A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of speaking with Peter the MG owner in the link below. He COPIED the shell rotator from a picture in a magazine:

http://www.britishv8.org/mg/petervandevelde.htm

 

[marlinspike]

The thread on Making Panels by bmwtony on Retro Rides is outstanding. I also strongly recommend making your own metal folder from angle iron. It's not difficult and it has made our car resto so much easier. Just wish we had made one at the outset. There are several threads on here on how to make one, and I think bmwtony covers it in his thread at some point.

We bought an inner wheel arch repair panel for our old Saab which wasn't a good fit so we ended up with a lap joint rather than a butt weld on one side. However, having the metal folder has saved us money as we have been able to fabricate sill panels and door bottoms and use it as an anvil when pieces have needed to be shaped.

 

[islandjj]

Hi i made inner sills, door posts etc. for my MGA, Realized should have planned it a bit more carefully as outer wings don't quite fit the door posts, Outer sills took quite a bit of fettling to align with door. Made repair panels for bottom of wings using various radius drain pipes. Starting to look OK but could have done it in a 5th of the time with what I know now.

If I were to do it again I would tack all the panels in place, note where they need adjustment, take it all apart , adjust, then fit them.

 

[droopsnoot]

I've found that it's not only pattern parts that don't fit properly. I've got quite a few genuine panels that aren't correct either, and in fact the original front wings on my project car differ in length by around 3/8" from one side to the other. The theory behind so-called NOS genuine panels not fitting is that they were probably ordered up for a repair back in the day, found not to fit properly, put on one side and a replacement ordered and fitted. Then fast-forward thirty years and that panel in the corner of the stores that wasn't used because it was a bad pressing suddenly becomes a rare unused genuine panel, available at a premium price.

And I second (or third, or whatever) praise for Tonybmw's thread on Retrorides, provided a lot of inspiration and guidance for my project. I've never managed to do shrinking as he describes, but a link on this forum got me a shrinker and stretcher for a bargain price, so I'm not concerned about it.

 

[say]

Hey Stewart
Just seen your thread and thought I would help if poss.
I used to be a panel beater some years back but car accident finished that career.
Anyway, yes unfortunately some pattern parts can be a nightmare to fit and some are just ok, we used to find where we ordered from made quite a difference. You will have to do some tweaking to make them fit and sometimes this does involve some grinding, cutting and beating.
One good tip I have for you is to have some small self tappers to hand, clamp the panel as best you can then drill hole and self tap, this will allow you to close bonnet or doors to check your gaps with no grips in the way, if not quite right adjust accordingly.
This way if your gaps are good then when your done you can tack the panel and remove the self tapper, mig hole that's left.
You could even remove the panels to spray weld through on bare metal to protect, the self tapper way is better than weld tacking as you won't have to grind the tack off if you need to adjust

Hope this has helped a little, if I can help more just ask m8