gasless MIG?

[stew]

Hi all.

Have a murex 191 mig at home, use a 261 murex mig at work everyday, also have the use of a thermal arc 400 mig at work, also recently bought a r tech 161 ac/dc tig (which im well chuffed with! ), but im looking to try a gasless mig for in the back of my works van. Im a farm mechanic, and normally use a stick, but thought it may be worth investing in a portable mig. any opinions?

ive been looking at clarke 150, but wondered if i would be dissapointed in it, or whether its even worth getting as im experienced at MMA welding? im looking for something on a small budget, as it wont be used everyday, and will get bashed about more than a workshop unit. i also realise that you get what you pay for, but really my question is..... "is it worh taking a punt on a clarke, or something else? or not at all? "

any/all replies will be much appreciated,

cheers,
stew

 

[cumbriasteve]

I think it depends how much of your farm welding is on plate around the 1mm to 3mm thickness, for me it would have to be a lot to justify the purchase and humping around of another machine, especially if I was already managing with what I had.

 

[Ragnarok]

could get an inverter mig, if you want power and portability, i think they can all run gas less, and they're tiny if it's portability you're after

 

[KemppiFrog]

You know what sort of work you are doing, but would a 150 be up to ag work? Seems that MIG at rated amps is a lot less useful than MMA at the same amps on heavy metal. My 150 MIG is good to 4mm. My 160 MMA is up to using 3.2 or 4 mm sticks. Quite different. Probably someone with more tech knowledge will come on and correct me. (hopefully)
KF

 

[keith19]

No, you don't need correcting. I've also found that MMA gives deeper, better penetration for same amperage than MIG.
It can also be used to weld medium thickness steel to heavy steel much more reliably than MIG at the same amperage. MIG with gas seems to 'cool off' into the heavier metal and lose it's heat more quickly, leaving the weld sitting on top.

But MIG flux-cored wire, up to its limits, is somewhere in between at the same amperage, giving better penetration than MIG gas wire, but nowhere near as good as MMA.

All this has been observed on 'hobby' strength welders, by the way. I would imagine Pro MIGS have better penetration at same amperage than hobby m/cs, but maybe someone can advise on this?

 

[stew]

thanks for the replys,

yeah the plan would be to use the gasless mig for any thinner jobs onsite, such as welding broken box section on a frame for example, or welding in maybe 3 or 4mm plate gussets, or welding sheet steel patches 2mm, then use the stick for anything heavier.

Does anyone have any experience of weld prep for gasless? is it similar to stick? from what ive read on the internet it seems somewhere in the middle between stick and gas mig, allowing some rust and some contaminents.

 

[keith19]

"from what ive read on the internet it seems somewhere in the middle between stick and gas mig, allowing some rust and some contaminents."

That's about it, although I'd go careful on the rust and contaminants, as it's still mig and it lets you know that, if the work is more than slightly dirty. Will cope with a bit of surface rust but plays up if there are any deep pits (spatters badly).

But I have not used gasless on anything thicker than 4 mm, apart from joining 4 mm to thicker metal occasionally. My Clarke 151EN tends to run out of breath if anything more than shortish - 20 to 30 cm - runs are done near the top end.
This is something you have to bear in mind if getting a 150 Amp 'hobby' mig type welder; the duty cycle at the top end is not very good. Fine for a few domestic fence or gate repairs, not for heavy duty continuous or semi-continuous use. Anything heavier than 4 mm and I tend to get the stick out, even though it's a buzz-box.

 

[stew]

cheers keith, good to hear from someone who has the model im looking at getting. it does suck the duty cycle on hobby kits, but i cant afford/justify spending 700+ on a decent mig inverter, for it to be used a few times a week, rumble about in a van, and get trailed thru the mud on the job!

if it were another workshop welder, i would be going murex or something similar again, probably secondhand off the "bay of E", but its just not practical humping one about as a portable, unless i had a "hi-ab" crane on my van!!! lol

 

[keith19]

Hi stew, yes, the 151 EN is a decent enough little welder, as long as you don't ask too much of it. I've got used to using mine with gasless wire now, so use this for any outdoor jobs most of the time. It saves humping a gas bottle about and setting it up for a few minutes work on little jobs.
You are experienced with stick so I think you'll take to gasless pretty easily. I'd done a bit of stick over the years and when I came to it I found the gasless mig process oddly similar in some ways. It can get a bit smoky in confined spaces, just like arc welding, and you have to crank your head over a bit to see what's happening to the arc. Most of the time you'll be pulling the torch rather than pushing it, again like stick welding.
It's a bit more fierce than gas mig, but you soon adjust to it. Like stick you can weld in the wind with no problems. If anything, the wind makes it the bit easier, taking the smoke away!
Just a word of caution about the 151EN; it may apply to others in the Clarke range too: the table of settings in the Clarke manual for the 151EN seem to be incorrect. Certainly they were on mine. There's an amended table on here in one of the threads about this.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4971
Malcolm's post toward the bottom gives details.

 

[stew]

cheers for that. sounds like just the ticket!

the smoke and slag and that isnt an issue, im used to it like you say.

i seem to find that no tables of settings on any of the welders i have/ have used ever are anywhere close. my murex at work has stupidly high wire feed settings for each voltage!!! i also find most welders say "rated for 4mm on max" for example, but can actually handle a bit more, say 6mm.

all fun and games tho.