Gas wastage

[smurf]

Hi to all.
This is my first post on this site, and being a beginner to migwelding...............I haven't even done one spot weld yet. I don't think you can be any newer than that.
I have an old Elektra Beckum MigMag which has hardly been used since it arrived here 12-15n yrs ago, and love to bring it back into life.
My hobby is vintage vehicles, mainly vw beetles and type 2 campers. I have a project in mind and I'm in the process of being ready to welding panels in place.
I do have some help available from my brother, and with his advice I'll make a start.
The last 4 weeks I've been on this site looking for all the information to get me started. There's a lot to cover and the range of topics is vast. That's great because you don't have to hop from one site to another for info...........everything is here!!!
I came across an article which says that every time use press the trigger on your mig welder (using gas), you can waste 80% of the gas there and then, and when you're ready to press again, in the meantime it stores the waste gas ready to shoot out on the second press.
I thought that's a bit crazy. So I thought maybe the regulator is the issue. Single stage against 2 stage. But spending hours looking at different opinions and answers, but really came to the conclusion that replacing a single stage regulator with 2 stage regulator would make no difference. At this point I really don't know enough to make an assessment.
I digged deeper and found that there is a device that deals with this issue. Here's the link.

http://www.netwelding.com/

I don't know if this device works as it claims, but I was wondering has anyone on this site installed it on there mig welders, and what the results were. As gas prices will always go up, wasting any is a crime, considering it seems like alot to lose everytime you pull the trigger.
Love to hear your opinions and advice on the matter.
Thanks a million for looking.
John.

 

[BrokenBiker]

welcome.

just to dispell this myth about wasting gas, when you pull the trigger, the wore feeds, arc starts and gas flows. The only place the gas can leave the torch is at the shroud, which is where you want it. When you stop welding, gas stays in the torch pipes etc but doesn't get wasted, its there for when you arc up again.

i cant see how anyone could think you lose 80% of your gas by welding...thats like saying you waste 80% of your bread by eating it

 

[chunkolini]

Is someone on commission?

 

[waddycall]

Perhaps once you've started welding you could see how much gas you're using and decide if it concerns you!

 

[Paul.]

These devices have been around for years in various forms, most welders don't use them, so draw your own conclusions from that, if you are a beginner, time and money would be best spent on some decent consumables and learning how to use them properly, if the product is as good as the website you linked to then it wont be very good.

 

[BrokenBiker]

i didn't even open the link when i replied, just have now. You get better looking stuff in the reject bin for happy meal toys

 

[brightspark]

do we take it as a gizmo then as if they were good everyone would use them

 

[smurf]

welcome.

just to dispell this myth about wasting gas, when you pull the trigger, the wore feeds, arc starts and gas flows. The only place the gas can leave the torch is at the shroud, which is where you want it. When you stop welding, gas stays in the torch pipes etc but doesn't get wasted, its there for when you arc up again.

i cant see how anyone could think you lose 80% of your gas by welding...thats like saying you waste 80% of your bread by eating it

Hi brokenbiker,
Thanks for your reply.
I see where you are coming from alright. I just thought there was an extra build up of gas between arc ups, and thought that's a waste, as the article was saying.
That's grand. Thanks a mill.
John.

 

[smurf]

Is someone on commission?

I wish!!!

John.

 

[smurf]

Perhaps once you've started welding you could see how much gas you're using and decide if it concerns you!

That's it really, when you get down to it.

Thanks for advice.

John.

 

[smurf]

These devices have been around for years in various forms, most welders don't use them, so draw your own conclusions from that, if you are a beginner, time and money would be best spent on some decent consumables and learning how to use them properly, if the product is as good as the website you linked to then it wont be very good.

Point taken.

Thanks.

John.

 

[Hitch]

We fitted a supposed gas saver regulator onto one of the machines at work....its great.....

It gives plenty of extra room to hang the cables on

Regarding gas saving, not sure. Never bought any more since.

 

[smurf]

i didn't even open the link when i replied, just have now. You get better looking stuff in the reject bin for happy meal toys

No harm in asking though.

John.

 

[smurf]

do we take it as a gizmo then as if they were good everyone would use them

Wasn't sure if anyone on this site had used them..........................That's why I asked really.

Thanks for your reply.

John.

 

[smurf]

We fitted a supposed gas saver regulator onto one of the machines at work....its great.....

It gives plenty of extra room to hang the cables on

Regarding gas saving, not sure. Never bought any more since.

Maybe I should do the same.

Thanks for your reply.

John.

 

[hotrodder]

While that netwelding site is a bit of a mess it is home to some very good articles on metallurgical stuff written for the layman. No idea about the gas saver gizmo they peddle but as said they aren't new and they aren't necessarily snake oil. Any potential savings depend heavily on welding cycles as all they do (or at least claim to do) is reduce the initial surge of flow. With a process like TIG this can make a difference to things like the quality of arc starts when welding at very low amperages although the same thing can be achieved by increasing preflow time

GasiQ aren't so outragous with the claims about the Elga Optimator and they are extremely nice/well made regulators and flow meters, just don't ask how much they cost! http://www.gasiq.se/econtent/244/more_info_optimator.html

 

[Robotstar5]

We looked at one of the gas saving/optimising systems, even trialled one on a welding robot for a shift. Worked out it would take the best part of 4 years to recover the outlay and that was running 24 hour 5 day production welding so I doubt it would benefit a hobby welder.

 

[smurf]

While that netwelding site is a bit of a mess it is home to some very good articles on metallurgical stuff written for the layman. No idea about the gas saver gizmo they peddle but as said they aren't new and they aren't necessarily snake oil. Any potential savings depend heavily on welding cycles as all they do (or at least claim to do) is reduce the initial surge of flow. With a process like TIG this can make a difference to things like the quality of arc starts when welding at very low amperages although the same thing can be achieved by increasing preflow time

GasiQ aren't so outragous with the claims about the Elga Optimator and they are extremely nice/well made regulators and flow meters, just don't ask how much they cost! http://www.gasiq.se/econtent/244/more_info_optimator.html

Hi hotrodder,
Thanks for your reply. I thought maybe I was barking up the wrong tree in persuing this question. However, your link (thanks) would suggest that there is some waste on each start up. As to how much, and amount of saving if a device is installed is hard to assess. Being new to this area and a hobbyist, I suppose the saving would be small, but thought I'd make enquiries about it anyway.
Again, thanks for your advice and information, very much appreciated.
John.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Take a look at the 'Volkzone' offer from BOC on Argoshield light. With a 20l cylinder filled to a very decent 230 bar for only £25 plus VAT to refill it I don't think you'll need to worry much about how much gas you're using - the cost of a bit of wastage isn't going to be measurable!

 

[smurf]

We looked at one of the gas saving/optimising systems, even trialled one on a welding robot for a shift. Worked out it would take the best part of 4 years to recover the outlay and that was running 24 hour 5 day production welding so I doubt it would benefit a hobby welder.

Hi Robotstar5,
You have obviously considered these devices at some stage, and studied their performance in detail. It's safe to say that as a hobbyist welder there purchase wouldn't make sense.
Thank you so much for pointing this out.
John.