G. Dufour mill tooling

[sako243]

So a while back I picked up a lovely G Dufour mill from @8ob. He, courtesy of a friend delivered a gennie that can run it and it's in it's home in the workshop.

Now I'm in the hilarious situation where I have a Bridgeport that took a knock to the electrical cabinet moving it so needs a rebuild there but I have a load of tooling for it. Although not really used in anger because, well, life.

The manual for the G. Dufour simply lists it as 40 taper so I'm thinking it would be nice to get it up and running with something basic, a big Jacobs chuck will suffice for the light milling at least initially. There is no drawbar on the vertical head so from my understanding any 40 taper will do now?

When I picked it up

A slightly better shot of the vertical head in its current corner. It's not quite that buried, I was having a tidy up at the time.

Happy to buy new or if someone has something lying around that's surplus basically I'm keen to get something up and running so I can do some basic milling before I rebuild the Bridgeport - although I'm tempted to convert that to cnc and use this one as a manual mill for bigger jobs.

So in summary what do I need to get in order to get drilling and milling with this? I think it was a Type 53 from memory.

 

[minimutly]

40 int must have a drawbar.

 

[Agroshield]

40 int must have a drawbar.

I read his post as saying the drawbar is not there or missing rather than it has no provision to use one. It just means that he is not limited in what he buys by having to match it to an existing drawbar.

---

I think the best bang for his buck would be an ER32 chuck and collets. It will be hard to find a 3/4" Jacobs chuck (same capacity as ER32) in good condition at a reasonable price and holding milling cutters in a drill chuck is not the best.

M16 studding, large washer, studding connector and loctite for drawbar.

This one is probably a good starting point:

40INT ER32 COLLET CHUCK WITH 18PC ER32 COLLET SET AND SPANNER IN FITTED STORAGE BOX RDGTOOLS - RDG Tools

COLLET CHUCK COLLETS AND SPANNER ALL FIT INTO ONE STORAGE BOX 40 INTERNATIONAL COLLET CHUCK 16MM DRAWBAR THREAD SPANNER TO SUIT AND FULL 18PC ER32 COLLET SET RANGE 2-20MM AND IMPERIAL EQUIVELENT THIS COLLET SET WILL HOLD THREADED AND STRAIGHT SHANK ENDMILLS / DRILL BITS ETC MADE FOR RDGTOOLS EAN...

www.rdgtools.co.uk

I am quite sure someone will be along soon extolling the virtues of ER40 over ER32. If you already have tooling for the Bridgeport, with its R8 taper, it will all fit comfortably in ER32. Hence, why spend more money for larger diameter provision when you are unlikely to use it?

 

[minimutly]

I read his post as saying the drawbar is not there or missing rather than it has no provision to use one. It just means that he is not limited in what he buys by having to match it to an existing drawbar.

---

I think the best bang for his buck would be an ER32 chuck and collets. It will be hard to find a 3/4" Jacobs chuck (same capacity as ER32) in good condition at a reasonable price and holding milling cutters in a drill chuck is not the best.

M16 studding, large washer, studding connector and loctite for drawbar.

This one is probably a good starting point:

40INT ER32 COLLET CHUCK WITH 18PC ER32 COLLET SET AND SPANNER IN FITTED STORAGE BOX RDGTOOLS - RDG Tools

COLLET CHUCK COLLETS AND SPANNER ALL FIT INTO ONE STORAGE BOX 40 INTERNATIONAL COLLET CHUCK 16MM DRAWBAR THREAD SPANNER TO SUIT AND FULL 18PC ER32 COLLET SET RANGE 2-20MM AND IMPERIAL EQUIVELENT THIS COLLET SET WILL HOLD THREADED AND STRAIGHT SHANK ENDMILLS / DRILL BITS ETC MADE FOR RDGTOOLS EAN...

www.rdgtools.co.uk

I am quite sure someone will be along soon extolling the virtues of ER40 over ER32. If you already have tooling for the Bridgeport, with its R8 taper, it will all fit comfortably in ER32. Hence, why spend more money for larger diameter provision when you are unlikely to use it?

Does ER 32 hold 25mm?

 

[Seadog]

Its maximum is 20mm, as standard. But, there are some oversize collet available.

Omega Products ER32 Collet Standard Precision - 10 Micron Run-Out - 25mm - 24mm | Standard Collets | Protool Ltd

www.protool-ltd.co.uk

 

[Agroshield]

Does ER32 hold 25mm?

Not well. As Seadog says, oversize ER32 collets are available, but they are razor thin at the two ends. They are more for light use of a large tool that you already possess than for using the tool to its full potential.

If he has Bridgeport-suitable tooling, there will not be much 25mm stuff in that. When he does get the BP up and running, he can just buy an R8 to ER32 and use the collets on that as well.

 

[sako243]

@Agroshield thanks for that - you are correct in your interpretation of my post. Nothing in there so the question is which of the various 40 tapers would be best suited. 40 int, BT40 etc? I'm out of my depth here.

I have seen some 40 taper to R8 adapters but they're not cheap nor readily available.

 

[6ply]

My mill uses 40int. If you pick up used chucks/tool holders you'll probably need two different drawbars (can use threaded rod) for metric and imperial.

 

[6ply]

@Agroshield thanks for that - you are correct in your interpretation of my post. Nothing in there so the question is which of the various 40 tapers would be best suited. 40 int, BT40 etc? I'm out of my depth here.

I have seen some 40 taper to R8 adapters but they're not cheap nor readily available.

All 40 tapers are the same. Bt40 has a pull stud that you don't need.

 

[6ply]

Totally depends on what you plan to mill, but I enjoy using shell mills like below. I find they work well at lower speed and don't make too much noise or mess - ideal for use at home. I have purchased new old stock for about £20 each.

 

[minimutly]

@Agroshield thanks for that - you are correct in your interpretation of my post. Nothing in there so the question is which of the various 40 tapers would be best suited. 40 int, BT40 etc? I'm out of my depth here.

I have seen some 40 taper to R8 adapters but they're not cheap nor readily available.

I wouldn’t recommend adapters, they push the tool too far away from the lower bearing, risk of bending the quill shaft, tool, adapter etc if it all goes wrong. 40 int is stronger and easier to change over because it’s beefier and shorter.
I’ll have a look, but I think I may have a spare Clarkson autolock you can have on a long term lend or whatever. Downside on auto locks is you need a range of collets to suit your threaded cutters, but there are plenty on eBay from time to time. Let me know, I’ll drop it down.

 

[sako243]

I don't have a problem with noise - had a 13t Komatsu digging a big hole 100 yards from the neighbours house for a week and he didn't even notice it was there.

So it sounds like INT40 tooling and then make a draw bar out of some stud to get me off the ground?

 

[6ply]

I don't have a problem with noise - had a 13t Komatsu digging a big hole 100 yards from the neighbours house for a week and he didn't even notice it was there.

So it sounds like INT40 tooling and then make a draw bar out of some stud to get me off the ground?

Or thread both ends of some plain round bar. That's my preferred option.

 

[sako243]

That was going to be the longer term solution but at the moment I'd be nice to have something functional quickly.

Slowly getting the workshop into order and I think one of the next jobs will be getting the generator "permanently" wired in, i.e. a cable routed from outside to inside so that at least I can fire up the big mills without having to move several tonnes of machinery about first.

 

[sako243]

Struggling in my quick search to find INT40 stuff, there's a load of BT40 (ideally eliminated because of the pull-stud) and ISO40. Any significant issues with using the ISO40 stuff?

 

[Agroshield]

Struggling in my quick search to find INT40 stuff, there's a load of BT40 (ideally eliminated because of the pull-stud) and ISO40. Any significant issues with using the ISO40 stuff?

8ob asked a similar question a while back.

A question for the 40 internationalists

What of the other 40 taper tooling will fit a mill that’s 40 int? Have googled this to death and anything remotely informative seems to end with me looking at a 404 error message so long gone. Looking at some bt40 tooling, is this going to work in my mill? Thanks in advance Bob

www.mig-welding.co.uk

At the very end of the thread, I listed all the synonyms I know for 30 taper. Just replace the '3' with a '4' in your searches.

 

[Hopefuldave]

8ob asked a similar question a while back.

A question for the 40 internationalists

What of the other 40 taper tooling will fit a mill that’s 40 int? Have googled this to death and anything remotely informative seems to end with me looking at a 404 error message so long gone. Looking at some bt40 tooling, is this going to work in my mill? Thanks in advance Bob

www.mig-welding.co.uk

At the very end of the thread, I listed all the synonyms I know for 30 taper. Just replace the '3' with a '4' in your searches.

I bought a hatfull of BT40 for an inexcusably low starting bid on EvilBay (the couple of dozen cost less than a quarter what the genuine Albrecht chuck would), the studs unscrew to reveal the M16 thread - as before, studding, washer, studding connector and crossdrill for a pin, Robert's one's parent's sibling. Onlything to watch for, the driving keys vary, one's a bit larger on some variants (but unless you're really munching metal, can run with one removed).

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[minimutly]

I bought a hatfull of BT40 for an inexcusably low starting bid on EvilBay (the couple of dozen cost less than a quarter what the genuine Albrecht chuck would), the studs unscrew to reveal the M16 thread - as before, studding, washer, studding connector and crossdrill for a pin, Robert's one's parent's sibling. Onlything to watch for, the driving keys vary, one's a bit larger on some variants (but unless you're really munching metal, can run with one removed).

Dave H. (the other one)

The drive dogs have been removed from the int 40 on my Fritz to fit the plain socketeted flycutter. Never had a slip on inch or bigger cutters, or 5 inch indexed cutters spitting hot steel at me.

 

[Hopefuldave]

The drive dogs have been removed from the int 40 on my Fritz to fit the plain socketeted flycutter. Never had a slip on inch or bigger cutters, or 5 inch indexed cutters spitting hot steel at me.

I only removed one, being of a Nervous Disposition, and the Test 2U having 3HP behind the spindle... Good to know it's possible though!

Dave H. (the other one)

 

[sako243]

Well some ISO40 tooling has been ordered from so will have a little play with it when I get back from my holibobs next week. Set of ER40 collets because, well why not, it's got the capacity to. Obviously a holder for it and then also a Jacobs chuck for drilling. Part of what I've been wanting to use this for is "precise" drilling using the cable to relocate so the Jacobs chuck will be handy for that.