Fixings for concrete railway sleepers.

[Gareth J]

Just reading the chemical resin thread and thinking about options I can use for concrete railway sleepers.

Have started to use them as gate posts again. Cheaper than wood and obviously last longer. Used to use them with welded straps with threaded bar around the back. But these were a pain and now have been putting galvanised hanging brackets on with concrete bolts, or trying to.

It's a system that could work really well, carefully (to avoid the wires) drilled holes with the SDS go in fine and a handful of "thunderbolt" type bolts later with a rattle gun and it's done.... except the aggregate is that hard it's really difficult to get the concrete boots to bite and wind in properly. They tend to either stop pulling in and spin or just spin.

They're always fussy about women *worn* bits so last time used a new bit but not particularly better.

It does almost work, it's just right on the cusp of not working every time.

Was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for ultra hard fixings? They only need to be a bit better than the ones I've been using (Timco I think). Or a sensible alternative?

I don't want to use resin if I can help it, the extra cost, faff and inconvenience isn't wanted.

Rawl bolts would work but they're annoying having got used to the self threading bolt type.

 

[Bobupndown]

They're always fussy about women bits

Bet they are

 

[8ob]

Just reading the chemical resin thread and thinking about options I can use for concrete railway sleepers.

Have started to use them as gate posts again. Cheaper than wood and obviously last longer. Used to use them with welded straps with threaded bar around the back. But these were a pain and now have been putting galvanised hanging brackets on with concrete bolts, or trying to.

It's a system that could work really well, carefully (to avoid the wires) drilled holes with the SDS go in fine and a handful of "thunderbolt" type bolts later with a rattle gun and it's done.... except the aggregate is that hard it's really difficult to get the concrete boots to bite and wind in properly. They tend to either stop pulling in and spin or just spin.

They're always fussy about women bits so last time used a new bit but not particularly better.

It does almost work, it's just right on the cusp of not working every time.

Was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for ultra hard fixings? They only need to be a bit better than the ones I've been using (Timco I think). Or a sensible alternative?

I don't want to use resin if I can help it, the extra cost, faff and inconvenience isn't wanted.

Rawl bolts would work but they're annoying having got used to the self threading bolt type.

I am surprised you can get a drill into them, we use a lot of these flat side up as drive edgings and when you need to cut them you get to see how many reo bars there are in them , I think its something like 24.

Bob

 

[Gareth J]

I am surprised you can get a drill into them, we use a lot of these flat side up as drive edgings and when you need to cut them you get to see how many reo bars there are in them , I think its something like 24.

Bob

Yes, you can see them from the top. They go straight through and in rows. So it's relatively easy to see where they are and measure in from an edge to get a clean hole. "M12" bolts take a 10mm hole which sneaks in without bother.

 

[Erie Fred]

Isn't there bolt/nut where the track attaches ?

 

[Kram]

I like to use cordless ratchet for stuff like this. Rattle gun may be too aggressive?

A squirt of something in the bottom of the hole may be enough extra friction to get them to bite?
Slow setting superglue?

You may, or not find some of this site interesting...

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[Gareth J]

Isn't there bolt/nut where the track attaches ?

No, some lugs with holes in. They are not in a helpful place and if they were I can't see they'd be useful for anything.

 

[Gareth J]

I like to use cordless ratchet for stuff like this. Rattle gun may be too aggressive?

A squirt of something in the bottom of the hole may be enough extra friction to get them to bite?
Slow setting superglue?

You may, or not find some of this site interesting...

The Bolting Bible

The Hole-y Guide to Climbing, Highlining, Caving and Canyoning BoltsHowNOT2 CourseInstall, Remove, and Understand What You're Trusting With Your LifeWelcome to the 5th edition of The Bolting Bible! It now encompasses the 4 main sports that use bolts with 500+ images, 250+ links, 60+ HowNOT2...

www.hownot2.info

Worth trying a plain socket/ratchet. It doesn't feel like that's the issue as use the same combo on normal concrete fine. Have put in ~100 one after the other without fail like it. The posts must use flint as aggregate or something.

Sounds mad but I may try a squirt of oil in the hole.

 

[brightspark]

Isn't there bolt/nut where the track attaches ?

dunno about that but i lived next to the concrete works dow mac who made thousands of them for donkeys years

 

[Pete.]

Just reading the chemical resin thread and thinking about options I can use for concrete railway sleepers.

Have started to use them as gate posts again. Cheaper than wood and obviously last longer. Used to use them with welded straps with threaded bar around the back. But these were a pain and now have been putting galvanised hanging brackets on with concrete bolts, or trying to.

It's a system that could work really well, carefully (to avoid the wires) drilled holes with the SDS go in fine and a handful of "thunderbolt" type bolts later with a rattle gun and it's done.... except the aggregate is that hard it's really difficult to get the concrete boots to bite and wind in properly. They tend to either stop pulling in and spin or just spin.

They're always fussy about women *worn* bits so last time used a new bit but not particularly better.

It does almost work, it's just right on the cusp of not working every time.

Was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for ultra hard fixings? They only need to be a bit better than the ones I've been using (Timco I think). Or a sensible alternative?

I don't want to use resin if I can help it, the extra cost, faff and inconvenience isn't wanted.

Rawl bolts would work but they're annoying having got used to the self threading bolt type.

I had a job like this a 20mm drill was too tigh and a 22 was too loose. They don't doa 21 so I got a 22 and ground the sides down to 21. You might be able to do similar.

Personally, I'd use expanding anchors.

 

[Agroshield]

They tend to either stop pulling in and spin or just spin.

As above, try an 11mm drill (easy to find in SDS). Are you blowing the dust out of the hole before installing the bolt?

Otherwise, if you are drilling the 10mm dia. hole say 100mm deep, open out the first 20mm of that depth to 12mm diameter. The deeper the bolt goes in, the more the resistance.

Hilti do a self tapping bolt called a HUS (https://www.hilti.com.pe/media-canonical/ASSET_DOC_2331142_APC_RAW). That will be a high quality item so would be a good benchmark. If it still fails, the sleeper is too hard.

 

[Gareth J]

I had a job like this a 20mm drill was too tigh and a 22 was too loose. They don't doa 21 so I got a 22 and ground the sides down to 21. You might be able to do similar.

Personally, I'd use expanding anchors.

Thanks,
Yes, I'll try an 11mm next time, well worth a shot. If the posts are that hard, they don't need the full depth of bite for a good hold anyway.

You're right that expanding anchors would be better, as would resined bolts I'm sure, but I really find them a pain. For this job the narrower drill hole of a self threading bolt, when trying to avoid the rebar mentioned above is also an advantage. It feels within grasp to tweak the process and get something reliable.

As above, try an 11mm drill (easy to find in SDS). Are you blowing the dust out of the hole before installing the bolt?

Otherwise, if you are drilling the 10mm dia. hole say 100mm deep, open out the first 20mm of that depth to 12mm diameter. The deeper the bolt goes in, the more the resistance.

Hilti do a self tapping bolt called a HUS (https://www.hilti.com.pe/media-canonical/ASSET_DOC_2331142_APC_RAW). That will be a high quality item so would be a good benchmark. If it still fails, the sleeper is too hard.

No, not blowing the dust out. But they're going in horizontally and give it a good riddle with the drill to clear the worst.

Thank you for the suggestion

 

[Gareth J]

Actually, I'd forgotten you could get through hole expanding anchors. That's probably the way forwards if I can't get this to work. I reckon I can aim a 12mm bit between the rebar ok.

 

[Pete.]

TBH if you're struggling with drilling the holes I'd look at red head anchors. you need a smaller hole and shallower too, If there's a lot of rebar you stand a better chance of missing it all.

 

[Gareth J]

For any gatepost fans who are interested;

The old way and the new.

Yeah, the painted strap looks nicer but it involves measuring, welding and painting in the workshop. And, not being galvanised, don't last as long as the gate. Bolt on hangings can all be done on site and it's all galvanised.

 

[Erie Fred]

Looks like a gate to nowhere.....
Maybe a pix farther away would 'splain things.

 

[DaveB]

The rail anchor lugs are either cast into the sleeper when it is made or if you are using the longer units used for switches they are put into an epoxy resin grout filled hole.

Any other fixings in a sleeper are usually expanding anchors, the prefered type seem to be a plastic ( nylon ? ) sleeve and a coarse thread screw to expand the sleeve in the hole.

If your trying a chemical anchor system then invest in a bottle brush or two and clean the holes out, I've tested enough of these to know it makes a difference.