Fast set retaining compound?

[Kram]

We use a loctite retaining compound to permenently affix balcony posts to base plates, although today it was a different brand pipe sealant or similar, using for the same job. I help them occasionally.

The problem with both of these is it takes forever to set. It would be ideal to have it set in a few minutes, or for some tasks an instant set like superglue.

Many loctites are a form of superglue anyway, however this needs to be somewhat weather proof.

Any suggestions please?

Today we had a part that needed to set before the rest could be installed, it wasnt quite ready, came apart and had to start again.

 

[JOEPRO]

We use a loctite retaining compound to permenently affix balcony posts to base plates

Can you share pictures of what you mean? Can't picture this at all

 

[Agroshield]

Would 5 minute epoxy in a double syringe work?

The challenge is that in general the faster the set, the lower the ultimate strength.

You might also research the relationship between cure time and temperature as a gentle warming with a hair dryer could have benefits.

You can buy an activator/accelerator for superglue (see mitrefast). Research whether something similar exists for other types of 'glue'.

 

[Wildefalcon]

Yes, from what little I know the longer it takes to set, the longer it lasts.

 

[Agroshield]

Too late to edit, but Henkel sell this:

LOCTITE® SF 7649

Prepares surfaces to increase cure speed without loss of joint strength

www.henkel-adhesives.com

Buy the one spelled with a 'k' as it will be better (see all 'kustom' products since forever).

 

[bricol]

In our experience, most of the loctite threadlockers tend to set pretty quick - we've had big threads seize up part way installed as the threadlock has gone off.

Pipe thread sealants, or the ones I've used, don't seem to go off fully - I've undone fittings tightened 20 years ago, and the sealant was soft and flexible.

 

[Kram]

Can you share pictures of what you mean? Can't picture this at all

With this system, there is a baseplate bolted down with three bolts, then the stainless tube is a loose sliding fit, followed by the cap to cover up the baseplate.
The problem we had yesterday was a hand rail along the top, the tubes were cut too short and had to be extended, hours later it wasnt dry.

One with handrail

 

[Agroshield]

Loctite cures at different rates in different materials (I think it is the iron which catalyzes it) so being stainless, and potentially it is unlikely you scotchbrited the mating surfaces before application, that may be contributing to the slow cure.

With any engineering adhesive, the instructions/technical data provided by the manufacturer will outline the performance envelope.

Has any proper engineer signed off on the extension?

 

[Kram]

We only install the frame and glass. It will get signed off after we are done, not our problem.

Often the surrounding materials are less than ideal. Example the handrail yesterday being held by 6 rawlplugs in fibreboard, there was no metalwork or masonary behind the cladding. These did not have end posts, the glass was clamped to the wall.

 

[bricol]

Seeing as Loctite doesn't claim their "permanent" retainer is actually permanent, I hope there is some back-up mechanical fixing of the post into the base plate!

The non-permanent permanent retainer is something we discovered last year with 50 dia thread into a tube.

 

[JOEPRO]

I think welding or a grub screw solution is a must for this type of application. I wouldn't be relying on loctite or similar to permanently affix railing systems

 

[Kram]

Some of the parts have grubscrews, handrail end caps yesterday for example. The metal is too thin and the grubs have too long a point, meaning almost no thread engagement. I do not like!

I've not had any issue with retainjng compounds, once set, unless you heat them, they are very solid. I trust it enough to spin parts up on the lathe for light machining (nothing that will get hot).

 

[bricol]

Some of the parts have grubscrews, handrail end caps yesterday for example. The metal is too thin and the grubs have too long a point, meaning almost no thread engagement. I do not like!

I've not had any issue with retainjng compounds, once set, unless you heat them, they are very solid. I trust it enough to spin parts up on the lathe for light machining (nothing that will get hot).

Yeah, we trusted them too . . . until they failed rather sooner than we expected. After a call with their tech dept, we discovered an alternative definition of "permanent" .

For something that looks like it could be quite important for safety as soon as it's installed, and still be reliable in 10, 20, a long time . . .

 

[dobbslc]

I'm not sure I've got the wrong end of the stick here but surely the bolts you're thread locking should be secure just on their own?
If it's all wobbling around while the thread lock sets that doesn't sound right at all.

 

[pint]

Use a manufacturers specified adhesive. it's like a 5 minute cure

why bodge about with the wrong stuff ?

 

[Kram]

I'm not sure I've got the wrong end of the stick here but surely the bolts you're thread locking should be secure just on their own?
If it's all wobbling around while the thread lock sets that doesn't sound right at all.

Not for bolts.
The baseplates are a flat plate, 3 holes to secure to the building, then a central tube coupler, where the posts are affixed with retaining compound.

Anyway for a safety issue, many parts have to fail. To lift the posts off, the glass would need to break or the whole row lifted off.

The glass is thick, strong stuff. Some of the balconies are just a channel slot that the glass slides into with no clamps or fixings along the row of glass.

Anyway this is not a bespoke system, its used all over the world, very common and all fitted in the same way I believe.

 

[JOEPRO]

We only install the frame and glass. It will get signed off after we are done, not our problem.

Often the surrounding materials are less than ideal. Example the handrail yesterday being held by 6 rawlplugs in fibreboard, there was no metalwork or masonary behind the cladding. These did not have end posts, the glass was clamped to the wall.

This whole entry just says it's a cowboy installation- sorry.

Surely there are proper design / engineer reviews of the system.

Just poor coordination to have no grounds in the wall and instead of proceeding with install should have stopped and addressed with builder.

Using threadlock to hold guarding uprights is not right no matter how you consider it.

 

[hotponyshoes]

What # loctite are you using?
Some don't react with stainless so you also need to use the activator with them to achieve the stated cure time.

You can pre-apply the activator well in advance.

Or, what about bolt setting resin?
Sub 5mins, only issue is you might need a new mixer tip for each post unless you can install them all in one run?

As mentioned, basically the slower the cure, the stronger the bond. A fast cure may well have more than enough strength for your needs though.
Most of the fast cures just have a fast grab & set time, plenty of them still need 24hr for a full cure, again, the set strength may well be fine for you.
I use plenty of glue that sets in 30 seconds and holds horseshoes on. They don't have to stand still for the next 24hrs...

 

[Kram]

Using threadlock to hold guarding uprights is not right no matter how you consider it.

Its not threadlock. Similar but different product. This is retaining compound, the system is intended to be used with this. I dont have a bottle to hand but believe the number is 638.

Surely there are proper design / engineer reviews of the system.

Yes the business owner designs and specifies which system, alll the fixings and plates and glass cut to size. He specifies the buildings requirements that it needs to be affixed to. Sometimes the buildings are not up to the standard and we have to wait until they have reworked it.

 

[Bornfree]

I call loctite 638 liquid welding