Evolution Rage3 circular saw

[TonyWilk]

Hi,

After mulling over the pro's and cons of getting a bandsaw (the Axminster CMB115 @ £156) or a disc saw, I ended up getting one of these Rage 3 cut-anything-under-the-sun things from MachineMart at £153 incl. vat.

Reasons being: going for something at 150quid, I guess a motor with a whizzing saw has less to go wrong than a bandsaw with lots of fiddly bits to keep the blade straight.
Also, I do have a need to cut up chunks of wood when I rebuild an outbuilding in a month or two.


Out of the box: There were several screws missing from the plastic bits either side of the cutting line - I replaced the lot with socket screws. The mitre tilting 'bearing' was a bit wobbly, but tightening the big nut at the back seemed to fix that. The workpiece clamp is just cr@p (pictured in front of the saw on a bit of hardwood), I fettled it a bit, but it's still poor. To be really safe, you need some better clamps.

There's a sliding end stop (not in the picture) which fits on the 8mm dia entension bars on either side of the saw - this is a waste of space too. There's two holes in a bit of cast aluminium which slides over those bars, to cut longer pieces you have to remove the bars (which is a pain), so I hacksawed a slot in one side so it could pivot on one bar and move out of the way.

Cutting... well, it makes mincemeat of soft and hard woods, aluminium offers little resistance. Mild steel cuts pretty well, although I found the blade would sometimes 'resonate' and make a wider cut - this seemed more likely to happen when you are taking it steady (pushing down harder seems to cut cleaner).

I cut 40mm, 5mm thick angle and 20mm solid bar with no trouble.

I had a bit of 12mm bar (which was probably rebar) which it didn't like at all - so I guess anything with a bit of harness to it is a no-no.

The "Frikkin' Layzer" sight-line is cool, as long as you remember it's on one side of the blade - so you can easily be 3mm off (doh!).

All-in-all, I'm pretty happy with it at the price. It should last a while since it's just for 'hobby' use - if you cut metal for a living, I guess it wouldn't last a month.

Yours,
Tony Wilk

 

[lexi]

Excellent Tony . Thanks for review. Keep us posted how long blade lasts.

Alex

 

[mart]

Hi Tony-I was looking at the mitre saws. B&Q are doing the MacAllister mitre saw range.

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/n...refview=search&ts=1205370271171&isSearch=true

I went to have at look in the store after seeing a friend’s saw. There is one on offer for £116 at the moment Although basically for timber, I understand that a blade can be purchased to cut metal. The one in the link above has an 1800w motor and I think the blade is 10”

I was not impressed when I saw the “paper” angle scale curling up and peeling off the table on several NEW ones in the store. I do know that some mitre saws have the angle scale cast into the metal table. Is this basically what a chop saw is? After reading on here that they are not that accurate at cutting straight, I decided (at least for the moment) to just use the angle grinder. Maybe as you confirm, they are ok for timber. Does anyone have experience of quality brands? I see DeWalt make these saws but the blades seem to be smaller.

The MacAllister saws do have a 3 year warrenty though (for the DIYers).

 

[TonyWilk]

Hi Mart,

The Rage3 is a sliding mitre saw like the MacAllister, but it comes with an "all-purpose" blade - replacements are about £35.
If you want to cut metal then the cost of the B&Q machine plus another blade might end up about the same price.

Big question tho is "how long does a blade last" ?

On the Rage, the table angle scale is cast in but the blade tilt scale is a bit small and crappy on the back of the machine - you can't see this scale straight-on 'cos the table "backstop" gets in the way. Even if the scale's accurate, you could easily be a degree or two out depending on how you look at it.

To tilt the blade you undo a small handscrew at the back of the machine which is a bit cheap and doesn't hold too well, which is why I tightened up the main bolt at the back.

I guess all tools at this cheap end of the scale will have similar little problems.

Yours,
Tony Wilk

 

[English Steve]

We bought one of the larger Rage saws at work, for cutting an angle on the end of a 13m long 150x100x5 RHS in 50B. Thought it would be easier taking the saw to the steel rather than craning the steel onto one of the bandsaws. I think it got used three times and was then quietly put away under the stairs in the stores, where none of the Directors would see it!
They are probably OK for DIY use, but not for industrial.

Come to think of it, it's been there for about six months now - must be about time to make a 'reasonable' offer.

Regards

Steve

PS Who said DeWalt was quality kit?

 

[Stuggi]

Well, my dad has a dewalt saw like that, for wood though, but it looks exactly the same, and it's over 10 years old, and there's still nothing wrong with it, and my dad uses it at a professional pace, several hours per week (he's what you would call a HD Professional DIY:er) I'm pretty sure that if you fitted a metal cutting blade in it, it would perform most admirably. Just don't cut stone with it (the dust messes up the motor, and voids you warranty, goes for angle grinders too!)

 

[English Steve]

There seems to be a theme going here - the older the machine the better it is! I've noticed it on several threads recently and I do agree. As for DeWalt, I am reliably informed (by someone who sells their stuff for a living) that they are now a trading name of Black and Wrecker - nuff said.

Steve

 

[Greg_E]

Hi all,

I have been following this thread with interest.

Thoughts went through my mind as well about putting a metal cutting blade on a circular saw or something like that. I was talking to a colleague though and it seems the difference between the Rage machines and all the others is in the gearbox. Reputedly, and I haven't looked myself to confirm, but all the wood chopsaws etc have plastic cogs in their gearboxes but the Rage machines have metal cogs. This is what makes the difference supposedly but like I said, haven't looked for my self.

Otherwise I have to agree, the older the machine, the better built it is

Greg.

 

[mart]

all the wood chopsaws etc have plastic cogs in their gearboxes
Greg.

I don’t like the sound of that Greg, certainly on that sort of machine.

I bought a paper shredder and it was ok until I put one or two extra sheets of paper though it at the same time (my fault). That was the end of it, When I opened it up to investigate I found that within the gearing was a combination of plastic AND metal gears. The teeth on the plastic gears had stripped as the paper jammed.

One of my thoughts was that this has got to be worse than ALL plastic gears. It makes me wonder what would happen in a similar scenario with a powered cutting device. I must look into what you have mentioned. I blame the Chinese again (right weldequip?)

 

[Greg_E]

Mart,

Agree with you wholeheartedly. It's all hearsay until someone breaks open their treasured saw though. I was mooching around the net and another consideration might be blade speed. The wood saws seem to spin at up to 5000 rpm (no load speed) where the rage blades are rated only to 3500. Makes sense as you guys have said that steel would need a lower speed.

Can't find any spec's on gearboxes. I might just wait and save up for a bandsaw and try and find some space in the garage

See you soon,
Greg.

 

[Stuggi]

There seems to be a theme going here - the older the machine the better it is! I've noticed it on several threads recently and I do agree. As for DeWalt, I am reliably informed (by someone who sells their stuff for a living) that they are now a trading name of Black and Wrecker - nuff said.

Steve

Well, that's no surprise, Dewalt is Black and Deckers "professional" line of tools, has been that way for years. And I haven't still to this day wrecked a B&D tool either and I've used several over the years. Sure, I don't expect Metabo like performance out of them (my granddad owns a drill made by them that's over 60 years old, only needs a bit of oil now and then), but they will sure last 5-10 years of normal use if you look after them.

 

[mart]

Dewalt is Black and Deckers "professional" line of tools,

I did not know that Stuggi. Does anyone know why B&D do not put their own name on their prefessional range of tools?

 

[Wozzaaah]

Probably because no-one in the trade would buy them. B&D has always been primarily a DIY brand, DeWalt has always been aimed at the pro sector. Even if they called it something like B&D pro it still wouldn't carry much kudos amongst tradesmen whether it was good stuff or not.

 

[shenion]

I did not know that Stuggi. Does anyone know why B&D do not put their own name on their prefessional range of tools?

People seem to have short memories.

B&D and Dewalt were separate companies. B&D was home DIY market and Dewalt was contractor equipment.

B&D bought out Dewalt years ago. For a while the two lines were separate. Now I am seeing the same tool with either of the brands on them.

Dewalt used to be great tools. I just sold my 36-year old Dewalt radial arm saw on Craigs list. Was made just after the merger; says B&D on head but motor and accessories say Dewalt. Sold it in a hour with lots of calls.

I should get a commission on Dewalt cordless drills. Every time someone saw me use mine, they went out and bought one. Helped a buddy install a wood deck and was using 3" deck screws. His B&D drill just could not handle the screws and batts did not last. My old 9.6V Dewalt was twisting the heads off the screws if they hit a knot and lasted a long time.

The next day he showed up with an 18V Dewalt

Dewalt is good, but I would no longer consider them professional grade. More of a "Better DIY grade".

 

[Stuggi]

Thanks Shenion, that cleared it up! Do you know when dewalt was bought by B&D?

 

[shenion]

Hmm, thought it was much later, but apparently it was 1960:

"DeWalt was a company founded in 1918 and bought by Black & Decker in 1960. They primarily made large radial arm saws that were permanently installed in lumber yards. Even though the DeWalt product line was focused on saws, the research showed that it had some of the highest name recognition among the professionals, receiving a 70% awareness rating with a positive disposition (Dolan, 1995a). In 1991 Black & Decker needed profound change, and senior management was resolved to achieve it."

Above taken from this research paper describes B&D history and aquisitions.

Edit:

Hmm, did not know this:

" Then in July of 2004, just three months after Black & Decker reorganized its business units, they signed an agreement to acquire Pentair’s Tools Group for $775 million. Like many established companies the Pentair Tool Group was originally formed by the merging of some key smaller units. These companies include Porter-Cable Corporation, Delta Machinery, DeVilbiss Air Power, Flex and Oldham."

Hmm, have a nice Porter-Cable circular saw. Now its B&D.

Always wanted a Devbliss spray gun, guess now will dream on having Bing.

Never cared much for Delta.

 

[Stuggi]

I have a small Delta bandsaw that's about the same age as the DeWalt, and it's total crap, can't cut a straight line in a piece of 2mm plywood to save it's life

 

[English Steve]

Anyone familiar with SCATS (Southern Counties Agricultural Traders Society)? Around ten years ago they removed all Black & Decker tools from all of their stores due to the excessively high warranty returns.
I have been told that B&D drills have a design life of 15 minutes. If you consider it takes just a few seconds to drill a hole for hanging a shelf or similar, and this is done maybe three or four times a year then 15 minutes equates to several years of 'average' DIY use - so is probably close to the truth.
Start using it for drilling 1/2" holes in 1/4" plate and it won't last long.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Start using it for drilling 1/2" holes in 1/4" plate and it won't last long.

Hehe, been there done that wrecked my hammer drill and bench drill doing it!
Mind you, that was several 22mm holes in 10mm plate so probably slightly above it's design maximum!
Got a mag drill now for stuff like that, 50mm diameter holes in 25mm plate in a single pass without even having to pilot drill???!!!.....hubba hubba!!!

 

[TonyWilk]

... I have been told that B&D drills have a design life of 15 minutes.
...Start using it for drilling 1/2" holes in 1/4" plate and it won't last long.

Well, my B&D hammer drill is still going after about 20 years.

Had to fix it a few times and it's really getting on it's last legs, but it recently drilled 8mm holes in 1/4 plate and fixed a few 10mm & 12mm chemical anchors in brickwork.

It's always had a self-limiting duty-cycle feature: when it get's uncomfortably hot to hold, I've got to let it cool down for a bit

I guess that adds more fuel to the 'Old Stuff is Good Stuff' argument.

Yours,
Tony Wilk