Defender wheel shake

[Rannsachair]

Just had a friend call in with a violent steering shake on his 2000 Defender TD5 when he hits 40 mph.

He has replaced the track rod ends, panhard rod bushes and steering damper, he found a little play in the steering box drop arm ball joint, so I gave him a repair kit (a legacy of my offroading is a shelf of wheel bearings, UJ's, track rod ends, brake pads etc).

Last time I had anything like this it was the Panhard rod bushes and the mounting hole in the axle had elongated, though he is pretty sure that is all ok.

He has booked in to get all wheels balanced and steering alignment done.

Any other ideas?

 

[Dave-sparks]

Panhard rod bushes would have been my first guess to but i've also had a failing propshaft UJ cause this kind of problem.

 

[nickk]

I had it bad on my forward control once,oncoming vehicles were startled,this happened as slow as 30,seemed a bodge ,but I welded mountings on and fitted a damper,by that time,I’d had it 15 years with no problems,I’d already replaced,shimmed,adjusted the front axle etc,I was on bar grips,and resigned to assume it was the wear pattern that had accumulated,bit like tractor front tyres,where they do a lot of hedge trimming.

 

[Domdom]

Has it had a suspension lift by any chance? I’ve seen plenty of these where the suspension has been lifted but the hockey sticks and driveshafts haven’t been done to match. They end up with fairly terrible geometry which exacerbates any other deficiencies.

 

[Rannsachair]

Has it had a suspension lift by any chance? I’ve seen plenty of these where the suspension has been lifted but the hockey sticks and driveshafts haven’t been done to match. They end up with fairly terrible geometry which exacerbates any other deficiencies.

No its on standard suspension, though it is running on MT tyres. Funny enough my Defender is on a 2" lift with bigger tyres and the only changes I have made are wide angle heavy duty Gwyn Lewis propshafts as it used to eat UJ's. Handling is fine, not a noticeable change from standard, though I have anti roll bars.

 

[sako243]

the mounting hole in the axle had elongated

That shouldn't matter too much. Its the clamping force of the bolt that squashes the bracket together onto the inner bit of the metalstik bush that holds it in place.

Have the bolts been done up tightly enough?

If the wobble is that bad he should be able to look out the window and see the axle shaking side by side with respect to the body. That would imply panhard rod is moving.

 

[Dave-sparks]

On my L200 I've had a bad steering judder which turned out to be caused by a flat spot on one of the rear tyres.
It must have been a manufacturing fault with the tyre as it still had legal trade everywhere except this 2" round bald patch.

 

[wristpin]

Does it have CV joints ? Had a similar issue on a Renault Trafic when the grease on the exhaust side dried out.

 

[Cobbler]

My son had a similar problem on his 110 fitted with big tyres. The tyre fitters tried several times & they appeared to balance up ok on the machine, but on the road the shaking persisted. He ended up using some system the some of the mobile tyre fitters use on lorries, by breaking the bead & putting something like beads in the tyre. It sounds crazy, but apparently the beads rattle round & somehow correct the problem on the move. I don’t quite know how or why it works, but it sorted his problem. I can ask him what it was if you are interested

 

[Rannsachair]

Does it have CV joints ? Had a similar issue on a Renault Trafic when the grease on the exhaust side dried out.

Yes the CV joints are in the swivel joints on a Defender axle, the TD5 uses grease for lubrication, should be ok, but if we struggle to find the cause will keep in mind.

 

[stuvy]

Swap the tyres from front to rear

Had this before a few times on loads of 4x4’s

Also tyre pressure and all bolts are tight

 

[Cobbler]

On my L200 I've had a bad steering judder which turned out to be caused by a flat spot on one of the rear tyres.
It must have been a manufacturing fault with the tyre as it still had legal trade everywhere except this 2" round bald patch.

I’ve had similar to this on our camper van, the tyre fitters said that something had allowed the water to get to the reinforcing wires which rust through & allow a bulge in the tread which then wears to allow a bald spot.

 

[stuvy]

My son had a similar problem on his 110 fitted with big tyres. The tyre fitters tried several times & they appeared to balance up ok on the machine, but on the road the shaking persisted. He ended up using some system the some of the mobile tyre fitters use on lorries, by breaking the bead & putting something like beads in the tyre. It sounds crazy, but apparently the beads rattle round & somehow correct the problem on the move. I don’t quite know how or why it works, but it sorted his problem. I can ask him what it was if you are interested

Haven’t seen them in years

They rotate with the wheel and find the low spots inside the rubber

 

[Rannsachair]

My son had a similar problem on his 110 fitted with big tyres. The tyre fitters tried several times & they appeared to balance up ok on the machine, but on the road the shaking persisted. He ended up using some system the some of the mobile tyre fitters use on lorries, by breaking the bead & putting something like beads in the tyre. It sounds crazy, but apparently the beads rattle round & somehow correct the problem on the move. I don’t quite know how or why it works, but it sorted his problem. I can ask him what it was if you are interested

He will try the new steering drop arm ball joint tomorrow, never heard of beads in tyres, will come back if still as bad tomorrow, I suspect it will be.

 

[Cobbler]

Haven’t seen them in years

They rotate with the wheel and find the low spots inside the rubber

I’d never heard of it, but seems to work.

 

[Cobbler]

He will try the new steering drop arm ball joint tomorrow, never heard of beads in tyres, will come back if still as bad tomorrow, I suspect it will be.

Google tyre balancing beads

 

[nickk]

On my L200 I've had a bad steering judder which turned out to be caused by a flat spot on one of the rear tyres.
It must have been a manufacturing fault with the tyre as it still had legal trade everywhere except this 2" round bald patch.

Had a wheel lock up?

 

[Mikes]

You don't mention what wheelbase. A friend of mine had a terrible shake on a 130 (called it the death wobble). We found two things causing it. first was a slack rear wheel bearing and the second was a bracket which is part of the steering box to chassis mount. It had cracked through and was allowing the box to wobble on the chassis. Was quite difficult to see until you watch the box whilst someone turned the steering wheel. The bolts holding the steering box were also a bit loose.

 

[Rannsachair]

You don't mention what wheelbase. A friend of mine had a terrible shake on a 130 (called it the death wobble). We found two things causing it. first was a slack rear wheel bearing and the second was a bracket which is part of the steering box to chassis mount. It had cracked through and was allowing the box to wobble on the chassis. Was quite difficult to see until you watch the box whilst someone turned the steering wheel. The bolts holding the steering box were also a bit loose.

Its a 90 on a galvanised chassis.

 

[Ton-up]

This is normally due to worn swivel pins or insufficient swivel pin preload.