Dead Berlan cutter

[peterd51]

Hi,

latest update...

heard nothing for a few days and then yesterday I received a new nozzle and electrode in the post from Germany.

I'd already told them that I'd changed these but they obviously don't understand English.

So I tried then new parts today and it still doesn't fire up the HF.

I'll be sending them another email in a few minutes!

Regards
Peter

 

[matt1978]

Hi Peter.........

Any news on the Plasma?

 

[EVguru]

Hi,

Here's the circuit diagram for the bottom board...

View attachment 2395

and here's the board...

View attachment 2396

Interesting!

The series of doides and capacitors after the transformer is a Cockroft Walton multiplier http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/cw1.htm. That's boosting the voltage from the transformer to the 3000volt or so needed to fire the spark gap.

It looks very much like a flyback converter. The most obvious culprit is the transisor (Mosfet or IGBT, I'd have thought) to the right of the top right capacitor.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

that lady I'm swapping emails with said she'll pass it on to the technicians but I've not had anything back yet...I expect to hear something today.

EVguru: do you mean the c2073 (middle near the top)?

I checked all of the semi-condutors with a meter on the diode range and I got readings that look like they should be on each of them.

But if Berlan can't help me, or the cost of a new board is too much then I wouldn't mind changing the c2073 to see if it works.

I think it's the transformer that's failed. Not hard to change but could be a bit tricky getting hold of one!

Regards
Peter

 

[MrFluffy]

I think the reason they sent you the torch + consumables is belt and braces before having the unit sent back and is fair enough. Probably if asked, 9/10 people would say "oh ive already changed that" when in reality they had done no such thing.
I used to work second and third line support, and the amount of kit we'd get back with a blanket "I was using it normally and it just stopped working", only to find missing tamperproof screws, a half eaten sandwich inside the (closed, allegedly tamperproof) case, or half the north sea. All of these people had used the above excuse and stuck to it, even when presented with the above.

I admit I was using mine the other day and suddenly it just wouldnt fire up, just the hf start sparks but no plasma, I immediately thought "oh no" expecting the worse, but put a new set of consumables in and it fired up...

 

[EVguru]

EVguru: do you mean the c2073 (middle near the top)?

I checked all of the semi-condutors with a meter on the diode range and I got readings that look like they should be on each of them.

But if Berlan can't help me, or the cost of a new board is too much then I wouldn't mind changing the c2073 to see if it works.

Yes, the TO-220 device marked C2073 in your diagram. What markings (if any) are on it?

Your diagram is a little hard to make out, but what I think they've done is build a self oscillating circuit similar to this.

The diagram doesn't show it, but the feedback winding is on the same core as the others.

They obviously have a circuit to detect is the main current is flowing and use relay turn the HF on and off and the connections to the board would then be power and relay control. You might want to just try bypassing the relay to see if that brings the HF to life.

I think it's the transformer that's failed. Not hard to change but could be a bit tricky getting hold of one!

Pretty much impossible, it will be a custom wound item.

I would normally suspect the transformer least, becuase it's essentially a mechanical component, just copper wire, magnetic materials etc. It could be that the insulation has failed, but I doubt it.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

yes, I guessed they'd try a list of things first.

I don't recall the specific markings on the device and it's all reassembled now out in the workshop. If they don't come up with a suitable answer by the weekend I'll pull it apart again and take a trip to Maplins in Grimsby armed with all of the details.

I did consider that the relay could have failed but again, while I can find the manufacturer, it's not an easy part to get hold of. I'd probably be ordering from China.

Bypassing the relay could be an option but I'm not sure what sort of voltages are involved so I've not been keen to power it up with the lid removed. I've already fried a good quality meter on the HF pulses!

I guessed around 12v on the relay, certainly the operating side...but maybe the output side is higher. My other concern was that I find it difficult to make contact with my meter probes on the bottom of the board so anything that doesn't have bare wiring above hasn't been checked.

I'd not like to have it powered up and push the probes down hard in case one slipped and made contact where it shouldn't!

Maybe it'll come to that, who can say?

Regards
Peter

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

well, after serveral more questions I asked teh Germans again if I could just buy a replacement board from them and they finally said that they can't sell me one.

Their solution was for me to take it to an 'electrican', so not much use there!

So I posted a message to Shop River on ebay asking if they could supply a board, quoting the reference number.

They asked for a photo so I emailed one and they came back with a price of US$60, about 31 pounds.

I've paid by Paypal and hopefully it'll be the right board and work!

I found the guys at Shop River a lot easier to deal with than the Germans. Their English seems to be better too. Very polite, for instance apologising for delaying giving a price by having to ask for a photograph, etc.

Even if the board is the wrong one I couldn't blame them for it and I'd use them again in the future for other equipment.

Regards
Peter

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

got home tonight and found the transistors that I ordered last week had arrived so I changed the 2073 but it hasn't helped.

I've got nine other C2073s if anyone needs one!

Someone at work suggested that I try to reclaim the cash off my credit card...

I bought the cutter in October and I'd say it's been too long now, but I have emails from the first week in January between Berlan and myself talking about the problem and possible tests, etc.

Has anyone tried to reclaim credit card cash before?

Bearing in mind it's a German company?

Could I claim that from October to January 4th isn't long enough for it to be of 'merchantabale quality'? Or is that a court session rather than credit card company?

Regards
Peter

 

[mishka]

Contact your card provider as a first port of call and see what they say. You have a long list of emails (documented evidence), and a broken product.

Perhaps the next stage is to write a polite (using simple English) physical letter (not email) to them (send it registered so you know it got there) stating that (a) they have had ample opportunity to fix it but haven't, (b) you want a refund or a replacement unit. Short and sweet. The card company may ask if you've already done this ("reasonable attempts to resolve the issue with the merchant").

Keep a copy for your records (print out all the emails too, just in case your computer burps).

3 months of use and its broken? Warranty / Merchantable quality? This is a trade within the EU, so that's a whole extra bunch of rules to apply.

And keep us posted.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

Shop River have been back in touch to let me know that they can't ship the replacement board until tomorrow as the 'factory' can't deliver to them until then.

The extra couple of days isn't a problem for me, but again, it shows the difference in service between the two companies.

Bearing in mind that the only dealings I've had with Shop River previously was to buy a consumables pack and they're not making much (if anything) on this transaction I reckon they're brilliant!.

Regards
Peter

 

[Captain Kirk]

Hello

I have a Berlan WIG180A Tig Welder. There is nothing wrong with it at this time. But Ide like to get hold of the manufacturers and ask them about spares. Does anyone here know the phone number for them ?. Cos right now I only have the Email adress and they wont give me their phone number, which I find realy odd ??.

Rob