Cutting oil or Suds???

[zzr1200]

I'm in the process of fitting a new pump to the coolant tank for my lathe, most engineering places seem to have moved over to neat cutting oil and away from suds, but that's probably due to the enclosed cnc machines and their speed.

What's the pro's/con's in using neat oil (which spec?), against soluble cutting fluid, better cooling/tool life/cost/cooling fluid life in a standard type lathe?

As yet I'm still sitting on the fence and don't know which way to jump...

Is anyone able to advise me, please.

 

[scott0031]

Discussed here

Not sure where you are getting this information from but its not usual to run cnc's with neat cutting oil. This is a bit of a sweeping statement as there are many types of cnc. Its more to do with the machine style, feasibility of neat oil and what the machine is designed to produce.

Its not a common practice to use neat cutting oils on vertical machining centres or standard style turning centers, that's not to say people do not use neat's on them, its just not common................ at all... in the main.

This is what i suggest you do, go find a can of old sump oil, then dip your hands in it. This is what its like using neat cutting oils as a flood coolant.



Kind regards,


Scott

 

[scott0031]

Being as this question has been asked several times over the years i will do a pros and cons.

Pros

Excellent anti friction properties.
Highly reduced tool wear by a very high factor compared to soluble floods.
Excellent for heavy duty cutting applications.
Parts remain free of any corrosion, until degreased.
Better for in process tapping reaming.
Good at keeping your work boots waterproofed.

Cons

Expensive compared to solubles.
Not as effective as solubles for carrying away heat (means you must be able to flood it properly to use it effectively.
Horrible to work with.
Unless you can provide a proper flood you will smoke yourself to death.
Clothes get ruined no matter what you wear.
Wife will not like you any more as you will stink like a BP crude terminal, (may be a bonus for some of you) even after a dip in bleach.
Gets in your sarnies, tea, hair ears, any where it can get, it will! Including car seats after a days work with it. In short it gets everywhere!

To clarify, neat cutting oil is not suitable at all for manual machining, people seem to read/hear/see things and think its the 'in thing'. Its really not. It is only suitable for the right machines doing the right style of work. Which is nearly always in a production environment.


Kind regards,


Scott

 

[awemawson]

I do just happen to have a 205 litre drum of neat cutting oil surplus to my requirements if you go down that avenue, but be aware it's not cheap

 

[zzr1200]

Thanks Scott, today I've called in to all the six engineers suppliers I know of in East London and North Kent, not one of them stocked cutting oil, only one of them said they had sold any soluble oil in years, a couple had supplied neat cutting oil but only to order.

The only place I can find small amounts (1 or 5 litres) is online, looks like I'II be ordering suds on line.

Being a hammer/spanner man, with regards to the old sump oil, I've spent years rebuilding HGV engines/gearboxes/axles and various other bits of plant, up to my armpits in it all my working life, so I know what old oils like, my favorite is well cooked EP140 with ground up diff.

 

[zzr1200]

I do just happen to have a 205 litre drum of neat cutting oil surplus to my requirements if you go down that avenue, but be aware it's not cheap

It'll take many lifetimes for me to use 205 litre, the drum would rust out before I'd used half of it.

 

[scott0031]

Try these people Silgo lubricants (Fixed link)



I only found them recently even though they have been going for the last 500 years. I think they do smaller quantities, I don't know for sure as i don't buy smaller amounts. Nice bunch if guys with tech people as well that dedicate themselves to selling oils.

Again you really don't need anything fancy coolant wise as i have mentioned before, A good old shell dromus B or BP Mineral based oil like diatsol( if its still available) will be totally fine.


Kind regards,

Scott

 

[zzr1200]

Thank you Scott, I travel up/down the A13 every weekday, plus I even worked on that estate for 2 years and I didn't know they were there. Looks like I be making a phone call tomorrow.

Thanks again.

 

[scott0031]

Sorry about the link. I have tried to fix it about ten times now and cant make it work no matter what i do. For copy and paste:

http://www.silgo.co.uk/index2.html

I know what you mean, I have been 30 years in the trade and never knew about them until a few months back. Trying to find a good selection of lubricates is getting harder and harder these days, even harder getting the one you want when you want it, That's why i like these guys as it's all on the shelf ready to ship.


Kind regards,


Scott

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

We have three cam autolathes that run neat cutting oil due to the speed s they run at.
All the rest of them run rocol 260.

 

[awemawson]

Sorry about the link. I have tried to fix it about ten times now and cant make it work no matter what i do. For copy and paste:

http://www.silgo.co.uk/index2.html

I know what you mean, I have been 30 years in the trade and never knew about them until a few months back. Trying to find a good selection of lubricates is getting harder and harder these days, even harder getting the one you want when you want it, That's why i like these guys as it's all on the shelf ready to ship.


Kind regards,


Scott

You think that you have problems with sourcing cutting oil!

I need some "Molykote Longterm 00 Fluid Grease" for a CNC lathe tool turret. Apparently very special composition that tolerates wet conditions (soluble cutting oil) but is a heavy duty EP gear oil and yet fluid. Molykote make it in Spain, it's on 6--8 weeks back order, and it turns out they are making my 5Kgs as a special order! Best part of £100 for the 5Kgs

Andrew

 

[scott0031]

You think that you have problems with sourcing cutting oil!

I need some "Molykote Longterm 00 Fluid Grease" for a CNC lathe tool turret. Apparently very special composition that tolerates wet conditions (soluble cutting oil) but is a heavy duty EP gear oil and yet fluid. Molykote make it in Spain, it's on 6--8 weeks back order, and it turns out they are making my 5Kgs as a special order! Best part of £100 for the 5Kgs

Andrew

I know exactly what you mean Andrew, I had had similar in the past, its really no fun these days. It stuns me how British industry (whats left of it) sill runs at times with these sort of problems. With the neat cutting oil i use i have been quoted 3 weeks plus delivery........... and as we both know that does not work with today's British industry, order tomorrow and deliver yesterday.


Kind regards,


Scott

 

[ronan]

It depends on what sort of work you intend to do on your lathe, is it a cnc or manual lathe ? Neat cutting oil seems overkill on a manual machine getting used occassionally imho. The only reason i use any coolant on my colchester is it keeps the work cool and you don't have to wait 5 minutes after every heavy cut before you measure the work. As for tool wear, tips aren't all that dear.

 

[hareng]

I need some "Molykote Longterm 00 Fluid Grease" Andrew

First one found in UK
http://www.swantek.com/html/products/mol13103.htm


Theres other benefits to using coolant Ronan, you get a better finish. Stop machine, immediately measure. Or like me keep spindle running for inaccurate measurement some where near.

 

[zzr1200]

You think that you have problems with sourcing cutting oil!

I need some "Molykote Longterm 00 Fluid Grease" for a CNC lathe tool turret. Apparently very special composition that tolerates wet conditions (soluble cutting oil) but is a heavy duty EP gear oil and yet fluid. Molykote make it in Spain, it's on 6--8 weeks back order, and it turns out they are making my 5Kgs as a special order! Best part of £100 for the 5Kgs

Andrew

I know exactly what you mean Andrew, I had had similar in the past, its really no fun these days. It stuns me how British industry (whats left of it) sill runs at times with these sort of problems. With the neat cutting oil i use i have been quoted 3 weeks plus delivery........... and as we both know that does not work with today's British industry, order tomorrow and deliver yesterday.


Kind regards,


Scott

Arr......good old "Just in time" ....no fe****g good if its waiting to be made in Spain.....British Industry is screwed.....

 

[awemawson]

First one found in UK
http://www.swantek.com/html/products/mol13103.htm


Theres other benefits to using coolant Ronan, you get a better finish. Stop machine, immediately measure. Or like me keep spindle running for inaccurate measurement some where near.

Sadly although they can get it they have none in stock and would have the same delivery lead time - but thanks anyway

 

[MattF]

Wife will not like you any more as you will stink like a BP crude terminal, (may be a bonus for some of you) even after a dip in bleach.

Can see cutting fluid being added to a few blokes shortlist now. Must dig that stuff of mine out and give it a whirl.