Countersunk Pop Rivets?

[geoffsurf]

I will be riveting together some aluminium into a rectangle frame shape. There will be two long 'Z' sections on the sides and then shorter slightly curved channel sections between the two long pieces. There will then be a sheet of aluminium riveted to the top of the frame. The rivets can go through the cross sections, side rails, and then sheet top in order to join the frame sections together.

However, I was considering buying some small countersunk pop/blind rivets and using those to join the frame sections together first. As the top sheet is going directly on the frame I am trying to avoid pop rivet heads getting in the way. I have never seen or bought countersunk pop rivets but they look like a good idea if they work okay?

 

[nickk]

Sounds a bit non standard,I’ve been in that position and just countersink enough to get flush.

 

[voipio]

Looking at a standard pop riveting gun (Stanley MR55), the nosepieces are quite a bit larger diameter than the rivet heads so, for a countersunk rivet, the nosepiece cannot lie any closer than the surface of the metal being riveted, plus there will be the natural tendency to wiggle the gun a bit during use, which will raise the nosepiece off the metal slightly. Thinking of the forces involved i.e. the riveting process pulls the rivet towards the gun nosepiece, there will always be a tendency for the head of the countersunk rivet to finish slightly proud of the surrounding metal. In the long run, this would tend to lead to the parts being joined by the rivet to become loose, since there would be a gap created between the rivet head and the top sheet of metal. The way round this would be to make the contersinking slightly deeper than the rivet head, and either machining the nosepiece to have a smaller diameter end, to match the rivet diameter, or sliding a steel washer of suitable thickness and diameter over the rivet mandrel before putting the mandrel into the nosepiece. There's no reason why this shouldn't work satisfactorily though, with the washer method, there would be a tendency to lose the washers, so it would be useful to have a decent stock of them to hand.

 

[Dcal]

I remember using them to install the front panel on Commer vans when I serves my time with BT.
I've never seen them since.

 

[tom2207]

I had some really small ones for putting xlr sockets on patch panels , so they are available .
In the end I used nuts and bolts to be able to swap out damaged fittings though.

 

[500e]

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[smashweld]

the nosepieces are quite a bit larger diameter than the rivet head

good point - never been a problem for me with 5mm rivets and an air riveter (luck rather than planning!)

as long as you buy rivets with the correct grip range and use a countersink that matches the degrees of the rivets countersink there should be no problems

 

[DanZac]

Countersunk blind rivets are widely used in the aerospace industry.

For what your thinking ahout doing you'll have no problems with a pop rivet. As above just make sure the angle of your countersink cutter matches the rivet angle (probably 120⁰) and cut very slightly deeper as the rivets normally tend to sit slightly proud when pulled.

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[lotus_esprit_s1]

I use them all the time, never had an issues with them in twenty years. Good for replacing Defender panels, the countersunk rivets can be hidden behind the rear cappings etc

 

[outofthefire]

We used them on sandboxes, with a cheap clarke air riveter with no problems.

 

[winchman]

I have just bought some seal rivets and they also sold countersunk, was standard item in the stores when I was an apprentice

 

[CompoSimmonite]

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[Keithmac]

I bought some countersunk rivets and the correct countersink bit, haven't used them yet though.

 

[geoffsurf]

Thanks for the replies. I am going to get some countersunk rivets to initially hold the frame together and then some standard blind rivets to attach the frame pieces to the roof. Couple more questions.

1. Are there any disadvantages to using the large flange blind rivets as opposed to the standard size dome head ones? Is there more chance of them working loose/stretching, or maybe less chance of it clamping quite as well?

2. The two frame pieces and roof sheet all in aluminium come to 5mm all together. The guides vary but show this as the maximum for 8mm long rivets and minimum for 10mm rivets. Is it safest to get the 10mm long rivets in this case?