Copper Head Gaskets - to anneal or not

[Morris]

The above just agrees with me, plunging it into water is quenching................
I was taught this by a time served Blacksmith.

You do not need to quench. See Sea dog's reply above. I was taught this at school including practical tests using both methods. It makes no difference.

 

[Popcorn]

Sorry bud but it's just heating it up if you don't quench it, your not annealing it.....

 

[Misterg]

When I saw the title, I knew the thread would go this way. It's like the flat earth thing!

Heating copper is sufficient to anneal it. Quenching is *NOT* required (but it does help get any scale off).

Copper *DOES NOT* age harden.

Annealed / hardened isn't a black and white situation - there are various degrees of work hardening. A brand new copper gasket probably won't be fully soft as it has undergone processing and acquired some degree of work hardening (even if only around the edges where it has been punched out), but not enough to be of any consequence for its use.

Anneal on re-use to give it the best chance of forming a new seal.

 

[dave h 2]

The reason for quenching copper is, for instance when you are making a 90deg flange you need to anneal more than once, if you don't it will crack. The quench gets rid of the scale, which has to be removed manually if not. Working scaled copper includes the scale into the metal, which means it won't braze/hard or soft solder properly.
In other words it saves time and effort

Copper is possibly different in 'ull, a bit like the 'copper' currency is today, adulterated with steel.

 

[Rannsachair]

Sorry bud but it's just heating it up if you don't quench it, your not annealing it.....

Sorry, had no idea this thread would get contentious.

My vague recollection from metallurgy classes was annealing was a heat treatment process to improve properties, the cooling is dependant on the material and has been said for copper it is normal to quench, though not required.

 

[JOEPRO]

I find most new copper washers are hard. So I usually always hang them on a pick and heat them until they just turn red with a garage torch and drop them into cool water. Works a treat - seals are then softer and can be bent with my fingers so will make a better seal.

The question I ask myself now is should I go a step further and pre treat all of these

 

[Robotstar5]

The question I ask myself now is should I go a step further and pre treat all of these

View attachment 511144

The plastic boxes will probably melt when heating them....

 

[Blobber]

I find most new copper washers are hard. So I usually always hang them on a pick and heat them until they just turn red with a garage torch and drop them into cool water. Works a treat - seals are then softer and can be bent with my fingers so will make a better seal.

The question I ask myself now is should I go a step further and pre treat all of these

View attachment 511144

If your that bored crack on!

 

[MattF]

The above just agrees with me, plunging it into water is quenching................
I was taught this by a time served Blacksmith.

Honestly, try it. It will anneal without quenching.

 

[Kram]

If you don't Quench it you've not Annealed it............
To Anneal Copper you heat it until cherry red, then after the cherry colour gone off you Quench it under cold water. This makes it soft again, if you just heat it and let it go cold it will still be hard.

Clearly you've never worked with copper yourself.

Quenching copper serves no purpose other than to remove scale, but theres no disadvantage, its free, so it is very common. I generally use citric as the quench warms it up a bit, helps cleaning.

Copper is very easy to anneal and it does not need to be at red heat. Copper will anneal at 300c if you hold it there long enough.

 

[jmp49]

I always do it at dull red heat, your just getting the dendrites to reform their bonds and giving it time for a bit of grain size growth, not remelting it. The longer you hold it dull red, the better the result which you cant do on the knife edge of orange about to melt pinging bits off.

The question that makes me ponder is if no quench how to get the scale off, without affecting the thickness of the gasket locally with some mechanical method?
I'm not about to put it on covered in scale.

But I would also suggest, both camps have our methods and they work for us, its not a religion or football thing to be fought about pointlessly. Just try it both ways and use the one that your happiest with.

 

[Kram]

The question that makes me ponder is if no quench how to get the scale off, without affecting the thickness of the gasket locally with some mechanical method?
I'm not about to put it on covered in scale.

Quenching is not that good at getting scale off, usually some is left on.
Soak in hot citric for a minute or so, it will come out bright pink clean copper.

 

[bricol]

Sorry, had no idea this thread would get contentious.

I did

It doesn't matter to the actual annealing process whether you quench or not - but it's always amusing to see the arguments - I kicked it off on the internal office teams chat by asking the same question

If I have water handy, I do, if I don't, I don't, just drag both sides of the washer across some scotchbrite, drop it in the pit when trying to re-fit it, then find a new, un-crushed one, and use that instead

 

[brightspark]

It can be used sooner, and some of the scale comes off

cant exactly say anyone fits them while there still red hot hot and if some of the scale comes off the rest will still need a rub over