Citroen C2 Diagnostic Reader to loan?

[puffernutter]

There was a thread a while ago, my next door neighbour has a Citroen C2 where the wipers do not work. The motor is fine, it's the cars brain (what little it has) not telling them to work. I've got a simple diagnostic reader that looks at the engine bits, but to sort this I need one that looks at the networks as I suspect the problem is somewhere from the stalk to the internal processor. The car isn't insured and I'd prefer not to trailer it (plus I suspect garage diagnostics will also be a prohibitive cost!) I don't have (and don't want a Citroen), so buying one outright for me is not worth it.

I just wondered if anyone had one I could borrow for a few days and try and fix it? She's a good neighbour, so I'd just like to help if I can.

I should add, I've tried all the fixes I can find on the web, except sacrificing a virgin on the bonnet, it's just finding a virgin in Trowbridge is not that easy.....

Peter
Trowbridge, Wiltshire

 

[eddie49]

Find a switched 12v live, add a toggle switch, hardwire to the motor...?

 

[500e]

Found the same problem elsewhere @puffernutter

 

[Pete.]

I've got a brand new diagbox interface but you'll have to download diagbox for virtualmachine onto a fairly decent laptop for it to work, or take a chance on istalling the disc they sent with it from china. You're welcome to try it out.

 

[Wozzaaah]

I also have a diagbox/lexia Interface. unfortunately the laptop I run the software on has an issue but I have the software on a USB stick so if you have a decent laptop to set it up on you’re welcome to borrow the interface.
it needs to run on an XP virtual machine.

 

[Wozzaaah]

When I say it has an issue, it does actually run it but is painfully slow.
I have successfully used it on my car though.

 

[puffernutter]

@Pete. thanks for the offer, however as @Wozzaaah is local to me, it would make sense to borrow his!

@Wozzaaah I'll message you and sort out what I need and thank you.

Peter

 

[Pete.]

Running slow onnxp virtualmachine is normal. Mine is a fairly good laptop and it's still painfully slow.

 

[eddie49]

I should add, I've tried all the fixes I can find on the web

Apparently the wipers are CANBUS-controlled. Have you tried resetting the Built-in Systems Interface - "BSI" ?
This video shows how to reset the link from the stalk ( COM2000 unit ) to the BSI:

Whilst doing that, do not open the door or do anything that would "wake up" the BSI.

This new stalk unit seems cheap:

Pardon our interruption...

 

[puffernutter]

Apparently the wipers are CANBUS-controlled. Have you tried resetting the Built-in Systems Interface - "BSI" ?

Multiple times! What's strange is that the rear wipers work and the washers work, but not the front wipers! I've changed the unit under the bonnet and checked fuses and continuity to the wiper motor!

 

[Pete.]

Might be a dumb idea but have you tried some water on the screen? In case they are stuck in rain-sensing mode.

 

[Wozzaaah]

When I say it has an issue, it does actually run it but is painfully slow.
I have successfully used it on my car though.

For info, I’ve upgraded the laptop RAM to 16gb and it now runs Diagbox superbly!

 

[Ubique]

Multiple times! What's strange is that the rear wipers work and the washers work, but not the front wipers! I've changed the unit under the bonnet and checked fuses and continuity to the wiper motor!

IIRC there are two relays under the bonnet that both need to be functional for the front wipers to work, there is also an undocumented LIN or private CAN (black/yellow I think) from the BSI to the front active junction box - It's been 6 years since I last wrestled with PSA oddities, I remember the undocumented data link as even the trainers couldn't find it on any schematics but it was physically there - and needed to be!

 

[Barking Mat]

Bloody modern cars !

Why ? Why so complicated ?

So you have to take it to the dealership who may* be able to fix it.

 

[Ubique]

There's plenty of indies capable of sorting it, it's not really 'complicated', no more complicated than PC's sharing a network rather than having their own MODEM connected to their own phone line. Wiring, logic and communication diagrams are available, they require a level of understanding and accuracy of testing (and accurate test equipment) that isn't necessarily compatible with mechanical (rather than electrical) ability.

 

[puffernutter]

It looks like it is the Comms2000 (steering wheel unit with the switches) that is not fully communicating, although enough now after a reset that it will work on delay and normal, just not fast.

The problem is (in my experience) the technicians of today (they are not mechanics and that is the problem) slavishly follow what the computer tells them. They are not trained to think of other problems, or try other things before they commit to making the change. For example, the system says that sensor Y is faulty. Disconnect sensor Y and see what happens - a different fault! So maybe it isn't sensor Y!

I knew a mechanic (old school) who had a stock of failed sensors and "when computer said no" he'd replace it with a known faulty sensor and se what happens. That is what is missing, the understanding of the way the cars works and a systematic approach to be sure what you are replacing is actually the faulty item, not something else that just gives that impression!

Rant over

Peter
P.S. I do know that a car went into a local dealership for an MoT and failed on the washers not working. It was taken into the dealer workshop and a diagnostic run (cost £50) that showed no problems, so they were stuck and couldn't help further. That car was taken to an independent by the owner who put water in the bottle and lo and behold, it worked!

 

[malcolm]

Wiper switch contacts are a common problem. When they go bad the wipers default to always on intermittent and Lexia says incoherent signal. You can buy a new stalk from ebay.

 

[m_c]

It looks like it is the Comms2000 (steering wheel unit with the switches) that is not fully communicating, although enough now after a reset that it will work on delay and normal, just not fast.

The problem is (in my experience) the technicians of today (they are not mechanics and that is the problem) slavishly follow what the computer tells them. They are not trained to think of other problems, or try other things before they commit to making the change. For example, the system says that sensor Y is faulty. Disconnect sensor Y and see what happens - a different fault! So maybe it isn't sensor Y!

Parts Darts Specialist.
Thing is, disconnecting a sensor might not always store a different fault.

I knew a mechanic (old school) who had a stock of failed sensors and "when computer said no" he'd replace it with a known faulty sensor and se what happens. That is what is missing, the understanding of the way the cars works and a systematic approach to be sure what you are replacing is actually the faulty item, not something else that just gives that impression!

That actually demonstrates somebody not that capable of diagnostics.
A decent tech should be able to diagnose most things without substituting parts, but the motor trade is full of 'technicians' who are grossly out of their depth, and somehow blunder and ******** their way at customers expense.

P.S. I do know that a car went into a local dealership for an MoT and failed on the washers not working. It was taken into the dealer workshop and a diagnostic run (cost £50) that showed no problems, so they were stuck and couldn't help further. That car was taken to an independent by the owner who put water in the bottle and lo and behold, it worked!

Sounds like the kind of thing the parts darts specialist we currently have employed would do.

The longer I'm in the trade, the more I think that it should be licensed, as it would very quickly weed out a lot of techs.