Car Painting

[Blobber]

Project Carlton is getting to the point of needing some proper paint, everything so far has just been a protection coat to stop the flash rust , most of which will need to be flatted back

The last car I painted was the Viva back in the early 90s using cellulose came out Ok but products have move on and I was hoping to do a one shop shop but it doesnt seem that easy! we have no where I would class as local that I can pop to
Im a bit out of my depth with this so any suggestions gratefully received

Stuff I was thinking I would follows
Devilbiss SLG guns with 1.3 and 1.8 tips/nozzles or whatever they are called
2.5ltrs 2K epoxy primer
2.5ltrs 2k High build/primer filler
2.5ltrs 2k primer
Top coat obviously and all the associated hardeners/activators etc

I wont be spraying the whole car but bits of it so mask wise would I get away with one of these?

Pardon our interruption...

 

[dan treg]

would say a proper air fed mask ideally and correct filters

 

[steveo3002]

2.5ltrs 2K epoxy primer
2.5ltrs 2k High build/primer filler
2.5ltrs 2k primer

why 3 different primers ? most likely get it all with the epoxy

 

[bert]

Absolutely no need to use 3 different primers. Buy a mipa epoxy primer kit it make 6.5l of primer.

Spray 1 coat over the car and allow to cure. Now do filler work.

Then 3 coats of epoxy over the top of the filler work.

Flat primer to 400grit then paint over the top.

 

[Blobber]

2.5ltrs 2K epoxy primer
2.5ltrs 2k High build/primer filler
2.5ltrs 2k primer

why 3 different primers ? most likely get it all with the epoxy

Absolutely no need to use 3 different primers. Buy a mipa epoxy primer kit it make 6.5l of primer.

Spray 1 coat over the car and allow to cure. Now do filler work.

Then 3 coats of epoxy over the top of the filler work.

Flat primer to 400grit then paint over the top.

Thats why I was asking the question in the 1st place, no idea what I needed but that answers a lot of questions thanks and saves some money on stuff I dont need

 

[charlysays]

Other guys above have hit the nail on the head re primers etc. Epoxy will do everything you need primer wise.
For top coat I would either block down the epoxy without rubbing through and find a friendly bodyshop who will do the top coat or do it yourself with Nisocoat 2 but accept it'll need some wet sanding and polishing. The more panels you can spray horizontally and in small batches (e.g bonnet as one batch, wings as another, perhaps two doors and a quarter panel as a larger batch) the less wet sanding you'll need to do with Nisocoat, it might just need de-nibbing. If you paint the whole car in one go it ends up very dry and dusty looking but done in batches you can get a somewhat peely but mirror glossy finish off the gun. If the panels are horizontal it's possible to have minimal/ no peel as it's possible to hose it on in fully wet coats. In my experience doing a gripper coat with nisocoat just causes peel to push through the full wet coats.

 

[steveo3002]

do you have a big compressor and willing to buy an airfed mask or no?

 

[Blobber]

do you have a big compressor and willing to buy an airfed mask or no?

Im good for air and looks like I can borrow an air fed mask, not sure about filters yet so may have to buy those

 

[badabec]

Hello, I'm in a similar situation with my Citroen DS.
The 'chassis' has had two or three coats of Jotun 87. The underside and non visible areas had three coats of 87, Raptor in various places and then Dinitrol stone chip. Bilt Hamber when it is all finished.
The visible parts have been flatted with 180 grit Abronet. Small areas have had filler. Some areas are bare metal.
My plan was to spray a coat or two of Leschler epoxy primer to even up the whole lot.
I was going to use cellulose for the top coat. 2K acrylic seems to be a better choice.
Can you still polish out any orange peel or other mistakes?
Does 2K acrylic need a clear coat?
Is cellulose still relevant or should I use 2K acrylic?
Or is there another non isocyanate finish I could use?
Thanks

 

[jo1010]

"...mask wise would I get away with one of these?
Pardon our interruption..."

Note that 2k smart repairs are normally done roadside, so there is no paint booth with extraction but they rely on ambient fresh air.....even then the amount of mist that hvlp produces is enough to completely envelope an operator .....so I'd prefer a full face mask in that situation (proper 3m full face mask only costs a bit more than that one quoted - but ideally not the Chinese knock offs - they perform but the material sitting against your face isn't good quality).
If your thinking air fed mask you'll need triple filtration and ideally a breathing air test kit to make sure your not breathing hydrocarbons from a piston compressor (that can make you as ill as breathing chromates or iso's - but in a different way..). Air fed mask will need an extra 10 CFM on top of whatever your hvlp gun top coat gun will need (say 11cfm for an flg 5...pro-lites need even more)....

 

[MetalMonkey]

I was going to use cellulose for the top coat. 2K acrylic seems to be a better choice.
Can you still polish out any orange peel or other mistakes?
Does 2K acrylic need a clear coat?
Is cellulose still relevant or should I use 2K acrylic?
Or is there another non isocyanate finish I could use?
Thanks

You can still sand and polish 2K. Infact if you want a perfect finish you would anyway.

You can get 2K as a direct gloss wich is coloured topcoat, that doesn't need clearcoat.
Or you can get basecoat/clearcoat - which is a coloured basecoat with 2K clear laquer that goes over the top. You can still cut and polish the clearcoat (providing you don't go through it to the basecoat obviously).
The most common approach is basecoat/clearcoat, but both have pros and cons.

Cellulose is a very old technology – You can get single stage (1K) synthetics which are comparable to cellulose but a bit easier to work with.
Both are generally rubbish when compared to 2K. If you are painting any vehicle you care about, I would go 2K.

I’ve no personal experience of the isocyanate free 2K finishes, but they do exist. Some on here have used them.

 

[steveo3002]

agree if you can deal with the breathing equipment side of things theres no doubt 2k is the best choice

thats not to say its fine to use non 2k with a hanky held over your nose lol

 

[bricol]

After I'd put all the time, effort and work into sorting my car, as I'd only sprayed one car a long time ago, I handed it over to someone who did it all day, everyday. When I saw it when I went to pick it up, I knew I'd made the right decision. You can't see all the work under the paint, but you would certainly see cock-ups in the paint.

 

[charlysays]

Hello, I'm in a similar situation with my Citroen DS.
The 'chassis' has had two or three coats of Jotun 87. The underside and non visible areas had three coats of 87, Raptor in various places and then Dinitrol stone chip. Bilt Hamber when it is all finished.
The visible parts have been flatted with 180 grit Abronet. Small areas have had filler. Some areas are bare metal.
My plan was to spray a coat or two of Leschler epoxy primer to even up the whole lot.
I was going to use cellulose for the top coat. 2K acrylic seems to be a better choice.
Can you still polish out any orange peel or other mistakes?
Does 2K acrylic need a clear coat?
Is cellulose still relevant or should I use 2K acrylic?
Or is there another non isocyanate finish I could use?
Thanks

Yes, you could use nisocoat 2. Another option is ultrimax 2.
I can personally vouch for nisocoat 2- it's more or less as durable and high solids as a 2k isocyanate acrylic or 2k polyurethane but takes longer to harden and doesn't atomise as well (leading to orange peel).
It wet sands and polishes well, so it's all correctable and if you use a generous amount of slow 2k thinner, paint the car in sections and paint as much of it as possible horizontally using full wet coats it produces a very acceptable mild orange peel finish with a deep gloss.
I used to have a car painted with celly and it needed a lot of upkeep to avoid it going chalky. Nisocoat on the other hand keeps it's gloss like a 2k paint should, even after years out in the sun and weather.

 

[badabec]

Hello, I've ditched the idea of cellulose top coat. It will be Nisocoat 2 on top of Lechler.
Is Nisocoat affected by humidity? I have a bone dry garage but it is due to pour with rain this week.
Will this be a problem?

 

[steveo3002]

might not be an ideal time to paint regardless of the brand

 

[charlysays]

Hello, I've ditched the idea of cellulose top coat. It will be Nisocoat 2 on top of Lechler.
Is Nisocoat affected by humidity? I have a bone dry garage but it is due to pour with rain this week.
Will this be a problem?

I never had any issues with bloom. I don't think 2k paints are known for bloom issues in general and nisocoat is no different. Polyamide resin doesn't react much with moisture unlike isocyanates so that should help. I remember painting some of my car on damp days. I used patio heaters to warm the panels a good way above ambient for say 30 mins to ensure they were bone dry. switched off the heaters then sprayed when panels were still above ambient but not too hot (say 20c panel temp on a damp 15c day).
I then used the heaters a bit more for good measure to kick off curing but at night the panels ended up soaking wet. No bloom issues and didn't ultimately affect curing though it might have slowed curing.

In theory, painting on a rainy day could be an advantage in terms of dust etc, you just need to make sure your compressed air is dry enough and take note of dew point etc/ ensure the panels are dry.
Obviously the paint passing through damp air on route to the panel could be an issue but it's never caused me any bother.

I live in West Wales a few hundred metres from the sea so I have to find ways to get on with painting even in poor conditions and patio heaters are key!

 

[badabec]

Hello, I've just given the DS body shell two coats of Nisocoat 2.
First coat went on until it was wet and shiny. I left it 20 minutes or so and then applied another coat until it was wet and shiny.
Is that enough paint?
It was applied on top of two coats of Lechler.

 

[charlysays]

Hello, I've just given the DS body shell two coats of Nisocoat 2.
First coat went on until it was wet and shiny. I left it 20 minutes or so and then applied another coat until it was wet and shiny.
Is that enough paint?
It was applied on top of two coats of Lechler.

Two full wet coats is quite a significant film thickness in my opinion. That's all I did and it seemed plenty. It all depends on how much correction you will do / want to do in future really. Another member who recently painted their car red with nisocoat did 4 wet coats then did extensive wet sanding and polishing.
I did two and more or less just left it gun finish.

You could go for 3 for a cover all bases approach. The two full wet coats I did took a few weeks to harden fully so be prepared for that.

Post pics when you get a minute

 

[bert]

I do a minimum of 3 but I wetsand and polish. Most accident repair centers will barely do 2.