Car audio speaker selection?

[JOEPRO]

My 1989 Merc 190 has am old dealer fitted stereo system that has had the wiring butchered several times in the past. I am going to remove the dashboard and rewire the lot.

The car has 2x 4 inch speakers in the dashboard. And 2x rear speakers in the rear parcel shelf. Not sure of the size but probably max 150mm.

I see modern speakers have 2 way and 3 way options. Is there an ideal setup for 4 speakers like this please?

Eg 2 way up front and 3 way to the rear sort of thing? I dont want to spend £££ on speakers so it'll be typical branded speakers from amazon or maybe Blaupunkt as a period correct brand at least which is what all the dealers fitted back on the day.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Blaupunkt as a period correct brand

Just a Chinese name now, like Grundig they do not exist.

I have been browsing 5.25" speakers and the specifications of all of them are total fiction. Any of them that claim a lower frequency response of about 80-100Hz are in fantasy land, not to mention the power handling figures. I know that a popular ruse was to take a 35W RMS speaker and claim the "PMPO" was therefore 180W, but now that figure is further inflated using a calculation that I can't even see; maybe it is just "grab any figure"?

 

[Robotstar5]

I should have a couple of pairs of 80's Pioneer speakers still in the box if you want me to look them out?

 

[JOEPRO]

I should have a couple of pairs of 80's Pioneer speakers still in the box if you want me to look them out?

Thank you for the offer, in this case I am going to use new modern speakers but hide them behind the original speaker covers.

I was also looking at amps and seen I must have bought this amp before for my cars and don't recall fitting it. So it must be on the garage shelf unused - I will likely fit it to this cossie then.



And possibly this head unit as modern item but period look:

Pardon our interruption...

 

[ajlelectronics]

Thank you for the offer, in this case I am going to use new modern speakers but hide them behind the original speaker covers.

I was also looking at amps and seen I must have bought this amp before for my cars and don't recall fitting it. So it must be on the garage shelf unused - I will likely fit it to this cossie then.

View attachment 515100

And possibly this head unit as modern item but period look:

Pardon our interruption...

Do the calculations before fitting "amplifiers". The same con tricks are used with them, defying the laws of physics. Your 400W, is actually 100W per channel PMPO. RMS (again not a real measurement) would therefore be 50W per channel. In the real world, physics apply and so best case (except when bridging is involved) is 13.8V into 4R. From Ohm's Law that is 3.45A. Power output at full chat is therefore 47.61W with no doubt 10%+ distortion.

In a nutshell, little point unless you are running it from the low level outputs on a radio because the internal amplifiers have failed, or you want to run 8 speakers for some reason.

 

[marlinspike]

Had you thought of finding used speakers from a top end marque? My resto has unusual sized rectangular rear speakers. You can get the correct size from Alpine but BMW Kardon Harmann rear speakers fit too so I bought a pair of those for £15 on Ebay.

 

[JOEPRO]

Had you thought of finding used speakers from a top end marque? My resto has unusual sized rectangular rear speakers. You can get the correct size from Alpine but BMW Kardon Harmann rear speakers fit too so I bought a pair of those for £15 on Ebay.

BMW parts in a Mercedes is an arrestable offence

 

[dieselsamurai]

may happen in the future though...

BMW And Mercedes Are Merging Parts Of Their Businesses

As the industry continues to push the idea of car ownership to the back seat, two of Germany’s biggest car-makers have agreed to merge their digital mobility services into one

www.carthrottle.com

 

[MetalMonkey]

You are entering a minefield Joe! Danger Will Robbinson.


The car audio scene is like the Burberry version of the hi-fi enthusiasts.
You'll get a million different answers and opinions, its all very subjective and very expensive.

Talk audio used to be the place for questions, but I think that all died a death a few years back.
Often you could score a real bargain in the classifieds, but you do have to be a bit cautious that you aren't buying something that's been hammered or broken.

For speakers a lot is personal taste as what you think sounds best.
For me, I quite like JL Audio and Rainbow as reasonably priced (or at least used to be), reasonably made, reasonably sounding option. But that's just me.

It would be more logical to have bigger, better speakers up front where you sit, rather than behind you, with some separation between the mids and the tweeters.
The 90's approach of large 6x9s in a bouncy parcel shelf that vibrates was generally considered to be a bit pants. Some of the high end SQ installs ditch rear speakers altogether.

It also depends on how they are mounted, how well sealed everything is -if they are just sort of hanging in free space and screwed to a bit of plastic trim, then you are already on a hiding to nothing.
You can put a lot of time into making up MDF mounting rings and generally fixing the mechanics of the speaker installation which will yield you far better results from a cheap set of speakers than splunking out for something top end installed with a crappy OEM mount.

Amps are another tin of worms, you can get into pages of debate on the topic - the advice used to be stick to a class a/b for your components and class d for your sub - aim to have something with a little headroom above what your speakers require.

Most of my gear is quite old now, so I have no idea what brands are considered "good" any more, but I had a mixture of Alpine, JL Audio, Rainbow, US Amps, Oz Audio, Rockford Fosgate and Nackamichi.
For older vehicles what ever you do will likely sound a lot better than the OE stuff, on modern cars usually the gains aren't worth the hassle.

I'd say the first step would be to look carefully at where you would mount things and get some ideas on that before purchasing anything.

 

[Ace Paul]

Speak to “dynamic sounds” or “car audio security.com”. Both can sell you whatever you want.



Probably get post deleted for off topic

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/cle7ru/til_that_mercedes_benz_used_biodegradable_wiring

You need to check if your car has the biodegradable wiring loom. Insulation just crumbles like an apple pie

 

[Robotstar5]

I fitted speakers into the headlining above the doors in my Landy which was the closest I could get them to my ears to give me a fighting chance of hearing anything over the noise of the engine, transmission, etc.

 

[Red'n'Black]

Do the calculations before fitting "amplifiers". The same con tricks are used with them, defying the laws of physics. Your 400W, is actually 100W per channel PMPO. RMS (again not a real measurement) would therefore be 50W per channel. In the real world, physics apply and so best case (except when bridging is involved) is 13.8V into 4R. From Ohm's Law that is 3.45A. Power output at full chat is therefore 47.61W with no doubt 10%+ distortion.

In a nutshell, little point unless you are running it from the low level outputs on a radio because the internal amplifiers have failed, or you want to run 8 speakers for some reason.

Don't modern car amps get around this limitation by running the incoming 12V through a boost converter?

Or so I was told by a guy on my HNC course who was into such things, circa 1996.

He soon found the rest of the car's electrical system was the next limitation, he had a base-spec 1.6 Sierra. He ended up with garden-hose size cables directly run to the battery

But yes, always take manufacturers' claims with a bucketload of salt.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Don't modern car amps get around this limitation by running the incoming 12V through a boost converter?

There may be some, but I have never seen one. A higher voltage would certainly do the job though. Another way of squeezing a little more is by a pair of bridged amplifiers. However, when you think that most radios have 40W PAs as standard, going to 80W is still only a 3dB increase.

 

[atomant48]

I have a bunch of 80s alpine stuff yet to fit but when I was last hunting for decent speakers I was impressed by the cven vibes or vibe cvens. They seemed to do the sizes I was familiar with - 6x9 in the rear and 6 1/2 in the front.

 

[tom2207]

I put a three way system into my aygo and stuck with the original head unit and added bluetooth and a digi input , I use a hi res music player if Im going anywhere but stick with the dab radio if its local , amps are on the bulkhead under the carpet , subs under the seat , low bass and mids in the doors and tweeters on the dash , active crossovers and remote dsp and you can only just notice the tweeter upgrade if you look closely ... add in some sound deadening and your onto a winner ,,,, but it can get spendy [ my hi fi in the car cost more than the car ] but for what your after some pioneers will do the very best , they will look period correct too , add in a nice amp with a dsp like the match 5.4 and spend half an hour with a spectrum and you will be happy enough ,, add an underseat later and you will be happy ,,,, but spend some time adding sound deadening , its humble money at say 100 quid , but it will give you huge returns ,,,

 

[Jackimus]

My 1989 Merc 190 has am old dealer fitted stereo system that has had the wiring butchered several times in the past. I am going to remove the dashboard and rewire the lot.

The car has 2x 4 inch speakers in the dashboard. And 2x rear speakers in the rear parcel shelf. Not sure of the size but probably max 150mm.

I see modern speakers have 2 way and 3 way options. Is there an ideal setup for 4 speakers like this please?

Eg 2 way up front and 3 way to the rear sort of thing? I dont want to spend £££ on speakers so it'll be typical branded speakers from amazon or maybe Blaupunkt as a period correct brand at least which is what all the dealers fitted back on the day.

If you only have two speakers in the front and two in the back, you don't have tweeters, so 3-ways are worth it.

Pioneer TS-A1671s are good bang for buck. I've got those and a Kenwood BT-960DAB from Dynamic Sounds, great people, super helpful, replied to my emails well outside of working hours.

The Kenwood is good with external amps as it provides a strong 5V line out. Can't speak to the internal amp - it works? Lol

 

[Robotstar5]

Do the calculations before fitting "amplifiers". The same con tricks are used with them, defying the laws of physics. Your 400W, is actually 100W per channel PMPO. RMS (again not a real measurement) would therefore be 50W per channel. In the real world, physics apply and so best case (except when bridging is involved) is 13.8V into 4R. From Ohm's Law that is 3.45A. Power output at full chat is therefore 47.61W with no doubt 10%+ distortion.

Do they still use PMPO in advertising?, I recall back in the days of printed catalogues, Argos etc. where they used PMPO to tempt the unwary into buying apparently powerful systems

 

[tom2207]

Do they still use PMPO in advertising?, I recall back in the days of printed catalogues, Argos etc. where they used PMPO to tempt the unwary into buying apparently powerful systems

they use all sorts of sneaky stuff ,, for some of the car audio amps to work as advertised they would need to be wired up on welding leads ,,,, but it looks impressive on paper ,,, a true 10 acoustic watts would kill you dead in a car ,,, but its nice to have a bit of headroom lol

 

[minimutly]

Had you thought of finding used speakers from a top end marque? My resto has unusual sized rectangular rear speakers. You can get the correct size from Alpine but BMW Kardon Harmann rear speakers fit too so I bought a pair of those for £15 on Ebay.

Plenty of top end Jaguar XFs being scrapped, many with the optional Bowers and Wilkins system.

 

[Blobber]

I was under the impression that treble is directional so not much point having tweeters poked down in the corner of the doors which is why the modern stuff has them up in the top door corners or dash corners, in the parcel shelf it will reflect off the glass, mid range isnt too fussy and base is even less fussy on positioning was my understanding