Can I get 240V in the States

[hairyone]

I'm starting a new Job in the US early next year and I don't really want to get rid of all my power tools (modded Cosmo included ).

I have read that in the states larger appliances run of 240V as explained here http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_run_a_240V_supply_into_your_home_when_the_circuit_breaker_is_120V.

Does this mean that I could have a socket installed in this fashion and run some (hopefully all) my 240V tools off it. I plan to get step up transformers for some of the smaller things like this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NBCO1Y, but the idea of having a 240V circuit, at least in the garage would be much simpler (I realise that UK is 50Hz and US 60Hz) so I wondered if anyone had any direct experience?

TIA

 

[Shox Dr]

I think it's 220v @ 60Hz and it's the Hz that matter. The volts don't matter as most things can cope with large voltage fluctuations however changes in the Hz do it's called brown out, and its the biggest thing to kill your electrical goods.


On another note did you know the Electric board are only contracted to supply you with 50Hz the voltage can vary wildly from 140 to 280volts. In power stations control rooms there is a very large display showing the Hz and that doesn't alter more than .01, so long as it doesn't they will produce 240v, if the Hz does it's that, that is more likely to fry your TV etc. It's what's on your phase near you that either pulls the voltage up or down.

(So Im told)

 

[hairyone]

Just found this http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_plug_a_230V_50Hz_appliance_into_a_240V_60Hz_outlet&alreadyAsked=1&rtitle=Can_a_European_230_Volt_50_Hz_appliance_be_plugged_into_a_240_Volt_60_Hz_wall_outlet_in_USA_or_Canada which suggests that it might be possible. I think the real question will be whether the things I plug in will tolerate a switch to 60Hz. I would imagin most things with any form of elecronics would use a stepdown transformer to create the low voltage DC.

I'm loath to start selling everything at a loss only to have to buy 110V items in the US and then do the same when I return in a few years.

 

[TVT]

When I moved over to canada 5 years ago, I had a whole bunch of 240v tools which I dragged over with me thinking I`d buy a load of huge transformers if necessary. However, I found that clothes dryers are 240v, so I figured there must be that kind of power around, and so I got a sparks in, and he added two 240v sockets to the kitchen for some of the kitchen appliances we brought with us (eg toaster - 110v toasters are painfully slow), and wired in a separate panel for the garage and workshop, giving me 240v in there too. The whole job cost about $250 I believe.
Without looking, I cant tell you what the Hz is, but I can tell you that everything I brought works - that is all drills, electric saws, routers, etc - a compressor, stereos, coffee maker, toaster, everything. Plus, the higher, pro-end tools in the US and Canada are 220v anyway...

I can even give you a tip - keep your UK plugs on your UK tools, buy a multi gang socket thingg before you leave, and fit a US style plug on the multi-gang. It saves you a fortune in buying separate new plugs for each tool...

 

[mr mac]

close but its not quite a big range as that ....something like -10% and+5% iirc



ian

I think it's 220v @ 60Hz and it's the Hz that matter. The volts don't matter as most things can cope with large voltage fluctuations however changes in the Hz do it's called brown out, and its the biggest thing to kill your electrical goods.


On another note did you know the Electric board are only contracted to supply you with 50Hz the voltage can vary wildly from 140 to 280volts. In power stations control rooms there is a very large display showing the Hz and that doesn't alter more than .01, so long as it doesn't they will produce 240v, if the Hz does it's that, that is more likely to fry your TV etc. It's what's on your phase near you that either pulls the voltage up or down.

(So Im told)

 

[mr mac]

i wont go in to the full ins and outs as it is hard to explain and took me 2 years to learn so i wont fit it all in one post lol.....

 

[Tom_M]

How they get the frequency depends on the speed of the turbines. In the UK turbine speed is 3,000 rev/min, which divided by 60 (seconds), gives 50htz. American turbines spin at 3,600 rev/min, which is 60htz. Keeping an eye on the output frequency tells the engineers how much load is being put on the output, so if the speed of the turbine starts to fall slightly they have to increase the steam to get it back to 3,000 rev/min.

There's different ways to convert frequencies. You can have a 60htz motor connected to a 50htz generator or you can use solid state switching to do it.

Tom

 

[KTMMICK]

As TVT says here in South Africa the voltage is close enough and I just bought the gang plugs with me and put a SA plug on that, I bought the ones with the surge protectors to be doubly sure.

 

[shenion]

US is 120V split-phase. Basically 240V with a center tap grounded. Your tools should run fine. Some will have better duty cycles. It is called 110/220 as that is what it used to be. Typically it is 117/234. Mine is 122/244.

The idea they "control the speed as it increases/decreases" is nonsense; all run exactly the same speed. Everything is connected in a grid. As soon as a turbine gets out of phase by just a little bit, the currents go wild.

Think about it, if a turbine was off by 1 RPM, in 30 seconds it would be outputting AC completely out of phase. You then have twice the load a dead short would be. It is a bit self syncing, if a turbine gets a little ahead in phase, it will see and increased load. If it falls behind, the grid drives it.

The hard part is getting the in exact phase before "flipping the switch" and connecting them to the grid..

 

[Shox Dr]

close but its not quite a big range as that ....something like -10% and+5% iirc



ian

You would like to think so...

I was having a lot of problems a few yrs ago, with Power and telephones, I had the Radio Telecommunication Agency down to try and sort it out. While all this was happening I bought a load of Belkin UPS's for the network I had in my W/shop. These have software to monitor load, Voltage Hz etc etc.The Voltage regularly varied between 140v and 280v, and that's when I found out there is ****** all you can do as the contract to supply is for 50Hz.

 

[mr mac]

when load increases a tap changer on a transformer will change to change the windings within the tansformer to counteract the volt change to up the volts, nothing to do with changing the power station, as all the power stations are interconected via the grid system

ian

 

[mr mac]

must of had problems mate, as down south here..... we would never get away with that as our network has the limits as i said and would of thought it was simular up your way?..... was there a fault in your local area at the time?


ian

You would like to think so...

I was having a lot of problems a few yrs ago, with Power and telephones, I had the Radio Telecommunication Agency down to try and sort it out. While all this was happening I bought a load of Belkin UPS's for the network I had in my W/shop. These have software to monitor load, Voltage Hz etc etc.The Voltage regularly varied between 140v and 280v, and that's when I found out there is ****** all you can do as the contract to supply is for 50Hz.

 

[Shox Dr]

I could never get an answer out of anyone, gave up in the end, I just ran everything throught indirect UPS, I even have one on my TV

 

[mr mac]

yeah i reckon u must of had a fault causing the hi low volts, could of been a variety of things, i am a cable jointer working for the electricity board done all the city and quilds in distribution and that, i am a faults jointer and i have to deal with the type of problem u were having all the time, its a right pain in the **** to find as its only intermittent so we cant directly find it.....we just have to wait most of the time till it just faults properly leaving people off supply, i would keep on at them and they can fit a voltage recorder to your supply and then they have to do something about it.....do u happen to live in the sticks or a small village?


sorry for my lack of knowledge of the usa distribution

regards ian

 

[piman]

Hello Shenion,

"The hard part is getting the in exact phase before "flipping the switch" and connecting them to the grid.."

That was a long time ago, nowadays synchronising is automatic. Even manually it is not that difficult. Generators run with governors to control the speed (frequency) and voltage regulators to control voltage. Certainly if the system is fully loaded then voltage does tend to droop and frequency as well but has to be maintained within specified limits (I forget now, it was a long time ago)

The idea that voltage doesn't matter is wrong but a 240v (nominal) rated machine will run on 220v. The frequency difference can cause iron losses on some machines (so runs a bit warmer) but I wouldn't think that there is any problem with the sort of equipment we are talking about.

Alec

 

[shenion]

I never said someone was manually bringing a generator up Has long used mechanical or electronic controls. IEEE had a article many years ago on the design of the controls.

Most things will run more efficiently on 60Hz over 50Hz. CHeck the Miller manuals, at 50Hz the duty cycles drop 10-20% over 60Hz. Transmission lines are less efficient at higher frequencies and best on DC.

Running marginal equipment designed for 60Hz on 50Hz may cause problems with magnetic saturation.

Note, 50Hz brushless motors (induction) will run faster (20%) on 60Hz. Yu don't see many of those on hand tools though.

 

[hairyone]

This is all good news. It sounds like I should be able to get someone to rig a 240v line off the split 120 thus (with the addition of a suitable breaker / 16A fuse

UK        USA
--        --------
L  +----+ L1(+120V)
          N (Common neutral)
N  +----+ L2(-120V)
E  +----+ Ground

 

[TVT]

In a nutshell, and getting back to your original - Can I use my power tools - question, the answer is Yes you can. And believe me, duty cycles...Hz...etc etc wont matter in the real world.
And really, your only other option is to sell them for pennies on the dollar and buy a whole slew of new ones when you get out there.
And that is much more problematic than a slightly lower duty cycle or a drill motor spinning at a slightly lower speed!

 

[McCullough72]

Your answer is yes.