Building the worlds' biggest wind turbine.

[Drains]

Video about building Enercon's mahoosive wind turbine.
It's streaming, 30 minutes, good quality and in German. Fantastic stuff.

http://wstreaming.zdf.de/3sat/veryhigh/100111_grenzenlose_windkraft_hitec.asx

 

[demag]

Brings back memories of erecting those bloody things when I used to drive cranes, stuck on top of mountains in the middle of nowhere, in all weathers sometimes just waiting all day and night for the wind to drop so we could lift.
Idiot project managers could never seem to understand that they were being put there because it was windy in those locatations and that was why the job was always getting "winded off" (stopped cos of wind), then complaining their schedule was falling behind. They seemed to think we should be able to control weather too.
Mind you, you learn what a 600 ton crane can and can't do in the wind with 90 ton hanging off the hook.

 

[piman]

Hello all,

they may be physically large but in generating terms they are toys, looking at their website, i couldn't see a unit more than 2 Mw in size, then factor in, at best 40% availability their output is small, which is why there are so many needed to get any power at all.

To put it into perspective, my last emplyer, a medium size particle board manufacturer had a site demand of 24 Mw, so would need about 30 of these turbines to supply one factory? Certainly it was an energy intensive process but so are many others.

Alec

 

[clem dog]

Alec, I think enercon manufacture a larger turbine than 2MW here is a wiki link.

Clem

 

[Drains]

I believe the one in the video is 6 MW Alec. The next generation of turbines will be 10MW and more, at least that's what my employer is currently working on.

 

[piman]

Hello Drains,

Ok, I only had a quick view and they may be what has been installed, but even 10 (x 40%) is tiny.

I just feel that our lack of forward planning coupled with forced closure of functional power stations has forced us to this programme of wind generated power, despite their significant drawbacks.

Alec

 

[Drains]

Hello Drains,

Ok, I only had a quick view and they may be what has been installed, but even 10 (x 40%) is tiny.

I just feel that our lack of forward planning coupled with forced closure of functional power stations has forced us to this programme of wind generated power, despite their significant drawbacks.

Alec

I see your point, although perhaps all power sources have drawbacks. It's interesting that Enercon refuse to be involved in offshore windpower as they see it as being too expensive and difficult, whilst the UK is going for it big time - in the North Sea they're talking about it being the New Oil Boom, and there are rumours of big manufacturing facilities opening up in Scotland producing 20Mw of turbine a week!

It would be good not to have to rely on imported coal for power; nuclear takes time to bring in (though I don't have a problem with it in principle), gas supplies are also having to be guaranteed using imports...

It seems sensible to offer a wind option as another string to the UKs power bow, if you get my drift.

One thing that seems to have almost no chance of working though is wave power. It would be great if it could but the obstacles to meaningful power production seem too great to be overcome right now, although not for lack of effort.

 

[pedrobedro]

It's good to diversify all your power supplies as there may be a problem with one source while another can carry on generating. I like looking at wind turbines anyway, I find them almost hypnotic but they should paint them a different colour instead of boring white.

 

[Drains]

Oh aye, the company I work for has just been sold to Mitsubishi. clicky

Looks like we'll need a bigger place.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

We have quite a lot of turbines up here - at any one time anything from a third to three-quarters of them are still.......probably the wrong kind of wind.

How clever is that.........

 

[piman]

Hello Drains,

every cloud etc, so it is certainly a growth industry in building and erecting them.

Apparently they're not as green as they may appear as there has to be a certain percentage of rotating standby in conventional stations to cover the eventuallity of a sudden drop in wind turbine output. That is generators running, not producing any power but capable of being loaded on demand so the fuel to run them is total loss.

Alec

 

[Drains]

Apparently they're not as green as they may appear

Alec

How green do they appear Alec? I might have to argue that the people who are anti wind turbines are those who make the most of the green credentials so they can knock them down, whereas a far more sensible argument would be simply that they have a contribution to make towards power generating capacity. There are no perfect solutions other than to stop using energy - not even burning wood.

Sorry, I should have included the government as a group likely to make the most of the green-ness of turbines. They also bullshitted about the wonderful-ness of nuclear, and the pollution effects of coal power. You can't win, whatever you do. It's our duty as citizens to take all of this stuff with a pinch of salt, to be sceptical, and also not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[piman]

Hello Drains,

one company (I forget which, it was a while ago) which is involved in wind power generation stated that their power production is 0% co2. I sent them an E-mail asking what about the emmissions from their maintenance crews' vehicles, no response was the answer. Certainly a very picky point but never the less, inaccuracy is inaccuracy. Not to mention the initial build, construction and transport.

I think the general concept is that they are 'green' in the accepted term of the word and that the power costs nothing. Well, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Ideally, wind turbines should have a buffer store, battery for example and transmit in D.C to reduce tramsmission losses. I don't know if the technology is available at a sensible cost for that, but I do seem to remember that the U.K - French grid connection was D.C.?

I worked at Trawsfynydd Nuclear power station shortly after it opened and the general view was of disappointment as the construction costs far exceeded expectations, which may also have been true of the oprating cost also. The promise of cheap power that nuclear energy promised did not happen, I don't suppose that has changed much?

Alec

 

[pedrobedro]

We have quite a lot of turbines up here - at any one time anything from a third to three-quarters of them are still.......probably the wrong kind of wind.

How clever is that.........

You don't want them running all at once or they'll all wear out at the same time

 

[Welderpaul]

I'm all for them. Sounds like its a good move for your company and money is to be made. I'd have the 'all the eggs in one basket' thing in the back of my mind though.
What bit do you want us to make then....?!

 

[Drains]

I'm all for them. Sounds like its a good move for your company and money is to be made. I'd have the 'all the eggs in one basket' thing in the back of my mind though.
What bit do you want us to make then....?!

It doesn't make it clear in the Scottish Gov't thing, but Artemis is now wholly owned by Mitsubishi. I work for Mitsubishi! As for eggs and baskets, well there are other interesting project on the go too - like railway loco drives.

And yes Paulie, I'm waiting for one of the somewhat more junior engineers to get his **** into gear and finish fannying about drawing up a 6 tonne test frame, which you may be interested in quoting for.

 

[Welderpaul]

a 6 tonne test frame, which you may be interested in quoting for.

Deffo.

 

[tigler]

Wind turbines are a joke ! Low output / materials / cost ratio and horrendous on maintenance ! The only reason the UK is bangin loads of them up is because they will be fined by the EU if they don't meet energy diversity and 'carbon' targets. So spend on marginal projects or be fined, take your choice !

 

[boydy1989]

i like these things.

will work with wind from any direction, much quiter, less load on the base, less need for gearboxes, etc.

apparently, it is the gearboxes for the generators that fail most often.

Ever seen a wind turbine when its speed controller fails?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o&feature=related

ouch...

personally, i think they are fantastic bits o' kit. Yeah, they are expensive to make/install/etc, but at the end of the day, the first power stations weren't exactly pinnacles of efficiency with flawless design... Chernobyl?

 

[Drains]

Aye, gearboxes. Which is why the bunch I work for are developing a hydraulic drive. And if you check that Enercon video, the windings are on the rotor- no gearbox, no drive, only one rotating part. It's a superb design.