British Nuclear is back (?)

[Ross365]

The prospect that Britain will get in to the Small Modular (nuclear) Reactor market seems to have made a significant step forward https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c051y3d7myzo. Rolls Royce (marine) are a key player and you'd have to guess that they are proposing a reactor evolved to some degree from the ones they make for the submarines. Could create a significant number of new engineering jobs. Wylfa (the site of a 1960's Magnox reactor, closed down some time ago) could be followed by reactors going to a number of the other Magnox (or even old AGR sites).

 

[Seadog]

At last!

 

[Robotstar5]

Just hope it doesn't follow the trend of most British infrastructure projects, massively over budget and late delivery.

 

[dobbslc]

SMR
Calling @fizzy !!!

 

[fizzy]

Just hope it doesn't follow the trend of most British infrastructure projects, massively over budget and late delivery.

Well hopefully not so much as that is the whole point of the SMR. A standardised design mass produced ish.

One of the questions RR was asked by the regulators. What back up cooling do you have? RR - gravity fed. Regulator - what happens if gravity fails
And they genuinely asked this!
People who hate nuclear power always point out that is costs far too much to build - blaming it on nuclear power whereas EVERY major infrastructure project goes way over priced.
Today is a pretty good day for wind power in the UK - and yet France is producing 7x less CO2 per kw/h than Britain at the moment. On many days it can be as much as 15x less CO2. Same goes for Germany. On a bad day Germany can be putting out 25x more CO2 than France - so much for going Green!

 

[fizzy]

SMR
Calling @fizzy !!!

TBH though a large nuclear power station makes more sense - it's just the insane amount of red tape kills them dead! Guess which country in the World has the most expensive nuclear power stations?
The exact same reactor design built in France is 3x cheaper than the UK - madness.

 

[Jackimus]

"It will take 15 years to build" said 15 years ago is still one of the more hilarious (you have to laugh or you'll cry) arguments I heard against it.

 

[Agroshield]

I have a small modular reactor in the back of a Sprinter. How do I get it out?

I think there is quite a lot of info. on the design of these reactors on the Illinois Energy Professor YT channel.

 

[fizzy]

"It will take 15 years to build" said 15 years ago is still one of the more hilarious (you have to laugh or you'll cry) arguments I heard against it.

In 2010 Nick Clegg said there was no point investing in Nuclear as we wouldn't get anything ready until 2022 - just about the time when the gas prices went nuts!
And now we have Milliband paying wind generators vastly more money than before as there were no bids at the old strike points.
And people wonder why Britain has the most expensive commercial electricity in the World

 

[dobbslc]

8 of these in line will power a small town or 1 smallish data centre.
Obviously you'd install it the right way up so the oil doesn't fall out.

 

[badabec]

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, next best time is now.

 

[Dapph2]

The wind genny's are just a stop gap till we get 100 SMR's up and running .then the turbine towers will be used for washing lines . So governments can do their dirty washing in public and hang it all out to dry under the astonished gazes of the public.

 

[Ross365]

I worked in nuclear back in the 1980's. There was a widespread belief that the Central Electricty Generating Board (CEGB) was set on having a "nuclear fleet" and was quite able and willing to hide the true costs by spreading them over other non-nuclear projects. Also, the Magnox recators and the early AGR's were all built at a time when industrial relations in the UK were truly grim. It's probably the case that no one knows, with any accuracy, what we spent on the early nuclear stations.

The Magnox reactors had to be greatly downrated from their design output because of corrosion problems. The very first AGR (Dungeness B) never really worked, but then they seemed to get the design right!!! The last AGR's were ordered under Labour in 1976. The Conservatives never ordered a single AGR. The handful of AGR's ordered in the 1970's went on to be very successful in terms of their technical perfomance, many outliving their 30 year design lives by a long way; I think there are 4 (?) of them still operating.

It's quite a sad story. I'm not sure whether I'm pro or anti nuclear now....but I'm definately pro British nuclear over French nuclear! I wonder what the final cost of the French recator at Hinkley C (apparently, the biggest construction site in the whole of Europe) will be... whenever it comes on stream .

 

[Jackimus]

One thing I really hope to see in my lifetime is cracking fusion reactors.

 

[Kram]

SMR
Calling @fizzy !!!

Dont get him started

 

[addjunkie]

TBH though a large nuclear power station makes more sense - it's just the insane amount of red tape kills them dead! Guess which country in the World has the most expensive nuclear power stations?
The exact same reactor design built in France is 3x cheaper than the UK - madness.

I think if you break down the project total cost, a power station, road, a railway line, cost in france and uk to actually build it would be very similar. Tis red tape generated cost that would differ, things like tunnels on open ground fora train, public enquiries etc. expensive consultants and lawyers grow their own earnings over project completion.

View attachment 519680
8 of these in line will power a small town or 1 smallish data centre.
Obviously you'd install it the right way up so the oil doesn't fall out.

Ive been intimate over the years with many such things, Wartzillas, B and Ws, MAN, Sulzers. The noise of those types of engines when your in between a pair of them on full chat is quite painful.

But running full chat 24/7 runs up the service and maintenance budgets, being slow and very labour intensive. A spiny thing either steam or gas requires far less input during its life cycle.

 

[redlig]

One thing I really hope to see in my lifetime is cracking fusion reactors.

And you are planning to last HOW LONG ?

 

[fizzy]

I worked in nuclear back in the 1980's. There was a widespread belief that the Central Electricty Generating Board (CEGB) was set on having a "nuclear fleet" and was quite able and willing to hide the true costs by spreading them over other non-nuclear projects. Also, the Magnox recators and the early AGR's were all built at a time when industrial relations in the UK were truly grim. It's probably the case that no one knows, with any accuracy, what we spent on the early nuclear stations.

The Magnox reactors had to be greatly downrated from their design output because of corrosion problems. The very first AGR (Dungeness B) never really worked, but then they seemed to get the design right!!! The last AGR's were ordered under Labour in 1976. The Conservatives never ordered a single AGR. The handful of AGR's ordered in the 1970's went on to be very successful in terms of their technical perfomance, many outliving their 30 year design lives by a long way; I think there are 4 (?) of them still operating.

It's quite a sad story. I'm not sure whether I'm pro or anti nuclear now....but I'm definately pro British nuclear over French nuclear! I wonder what the final cost of the French recator at Hinkley C (apparently, the biggest construction site in the whole of Europe) will be... whenever it comes on stream .

Dont blame the French. It is British red tape causing the problem. The French design was already proven and working. British officials insisted on over 8,000 totally unnecessary changes!

 

[fizzy]

And you are planning to last HOW LONG ?

Actually fusion is far closer now than it has ever been. It's finally within sniffing distance.
Whether or not it can get close to costs on fission is another thing.
Fission releases about 2 million times more energy than coal weight for weight.
Fusion about 4x more than fission.

 

[fizzy]

View attachment 519680
8 of these in line will power a small town or 1 smallish data centre.
Obviously you'd install it the right way up so the oil doesn't fall out.

There are loads of these around the country making a fortune sitting idle ready to ramp up when the wind doesn't blow