Argon consumption

[lbulloc2]

Hi guys, I'm new to tig welding having only just bought an R-tech 161 ac/dc set, and I'm finding I'm using a massive amount of shielding gas

I've probably spent about 4 hours welding total so far but my 20litre bottle has already dropped from 200bar to 120.

I've calculated about 3.3 hours constant use at 8l/min would be an 80bar pressure drop, so is this the kind of consumption I should expect? If so I need to get on the boc volkzone deal sharpish

 

[chevy2]

So long as you're not in a draughty workshop you could maybe drop the flow rate to 6lpm,
that same amount of argon would give about 4.3hrs instead of 3.3hrs?

 

[Mr shiney]

LOL, I did two Y cylinders in the first week of getting my TIG. On the third one now but got it under control......... I run at 7lpm which works quite nicely.

Makes the Volkszone deal real value for money!!

 

[3MPS]

So its not just me then...

 

[bc30se]

I think it might also depend on your machine, just when I bought my chinese I used to run at 7/8L... read tutorials and tried to do what people advised. Then I went down to 5 and it was sweet... and not long ago, I have had it for 2 years now so I can say I know it a bit, I wanted to experiment and tried 7L once again... I could have got the wrong impression but I belive the arc was not as stable at 7 as it is at 5.. just by the sound of it.....

I think such issues will come to you with time and it means getting familiar with your machine and how it sounds/reacts...

 

[langy]

I run 4lpm quite happily, just do tests, 8 is wasting gas

 

[lbulloc2]

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, I think I'll lower the flow rate a bit and see how it goes

 

[Richard.]

Depending a lot on your environment you could drop that significantly. First thing to do is turn the gas on and leak test every joint for peace of mind. If your in a nice draft free environment I would start your flow as langy said 4lpm. Do a few runs and then grind them down to see if they contain any pores. If they are nice and shiny on the surface and pore free you have just halved your gas usage if not up to to 5 and go again.
Gas is expensive there is no point giving it away.

 

[Paul G]

In all the time I have been visiting this site, and all the posts I have read on turning down the argon flow,
I have never read a post that mentioned a relationship between the flow rate and the size of the ceramic.

I take it that there is one ?

Paul G

 

[Richard.]

I would assume there is Paul.
Gas lenses, multistage regs are also good relations to saving on gas usage.

 

[hotrodder]

Flow rate and cup size are sometimes related to amperage and tungsten size on the various 'cheat sheets' that never agree with each other. Here's one from CK



While that shows larger cups as being less sensitive to flow rate (wider range) IME it's less about larger cups needing higher flow rates and more about smaller cups needing lower flow rates... more than 4 LPM through a #4 often doesn't end well, especially if someone is trying to use the thing with a 2.4mm tungsten.

Personally 99% of everything i weld is done with a #7 on a gas lens at 4 - 7 LPM depending on joint and the amount of stick out i.e. an outside corner & i'll turn it down to 4ish, if i need loads of stickout to reach a joint due to stuff in the way or whatever then need to turn the gas (and post flow time) up a bit. If i can't reach with a #7 then usually i'll swap to #12 and LOTS more stickout instead of going smaller. Exotics aside I rarely turn the flow rate up with a #12, they can work fine at 5 lpm if not running insane amounts of stickout

Argon consumption will (or should) also drop a chunk as you to get to grips with TIG... welding faster and further between stops/starts etc. FWIW i swapped out a size Y pureshield argon (230 bar @ 15C, 4720 litres) on Mon afternoon and, welding wise, since then have done one of these http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/media/pc040200-jpg.7826/, made an ally battery box and some small widgets for a mk1 Escort as well as modifying it's fuel tank (used so was purging a 50ish litre volume) and modifying a PRV inlet manifold for a Renault Alpine



Bottle is showing a nats under 200bar now, was showing 220 when i first hooked it up but it had obviously been sitting outside in the cold

 

[Richard.]

That's really good gas usage HR
Nice job on the manifold .

 

[chevy2]

I get through about three W size cylinders of argon a year and around 1-2 Y size on mobile stuff,
often change lpm settings and postflow to suit the job/amperage etc,
my workshop machine has an auto postflow setting to suit amperage which i often leave on but that has a default of 8 seconds minimum, if doing light guage stuff i'll switch it off and manually set it to around 4-5 seconds, every little saving helps.

 

[chevy2]

Looks like that manifold welded nice Hotrodder,i find stuff like that is often very dirty to weld, usually in the high 50s on the ac balance to keep a clean weld here.

 

[Richard.]

8 seconds is about the maximum I'll go to. Any more is a waste.

 

[chevy2]

8 seconds is about the maximum I'll go to. Any more is a waste.

I dont actually pay for my argon, it comes from my day job,
that doesn't mean i like to waste it, saying that if i did pay for it i'd most likely look into every saving,
since i went over to gas lenses a few years back i constantly run lower argon flow rates than before,
did a mobile job a couple of weeks ago and ran regular collets, first time in ages.

 

[Richard.]

Ive been on lenses for as long as I can remember but I did go on to an optiflow multistage reg a couple months ago and the claim is up to 50% saving on gas. There is quite a significant difference to be honest. Not 50% though.

 

[chevy2]

One thing i always do, when i first turn the welder and gas on a new day is hit the pedal to purge the torch and check/adjust the flowmeter if reqd as yesterdays setting may be different than the first job of today.

 

[hotrodder]

That's really good gas usage HR
Nice job on the manifold .

Cheers, a large diffuser on the purge line and low flow rates helped minimise mixing and cut down on the amount of argon used. I literally trickled the argon in at a litre/min while i got on with something else and set an alarm to remind me to check the purge exit an hour later

Looks like that manifold welded nice Hotrodder,i find stuff like that is often very dirty to weld, usually in the high 50s on the ac balance to keep a clean weld here.

Yeah, that one welded very cleanly. Done a dozen or so of them and they don't all weld that nicely... usually it's porosity appearing just at the edge of the weld toes rather than a properly manky weldpool though. Repaired some corroded waterways of a big clock Chevy inlet the other week for a 'matching numbers' nutter (Corvette owners ) that was proper bitch. 4 or 5 rounds of swapping between a carbide burr and the torch before i could get a stable arc

 

[Richard.]

Cheers, a large diffuser on the purge line and low flow rates helped minimise mixing and cut down on the amount of argon used. I literally trickled the argon in at a litre/min while i got on with something else and set an alarm to remind me to check the purge exit an hour later

Yeah, that one welded very cleanly. Done a dozen or so of them and they don't all weld that nicely... usually it's porosity appearing just at the edge of the weld toes rather than a properly manky weldpool though. Repaired some corroded waterways of a big clock Chevy inlet the other week for a 'matching numbers' nutter (Corvette owners ) that was proper bitch. 4 or 5 rounds of swapping between a carbide burr and the torch before i could get a stable arc

I'll agree with ta there mate they all seem to behave a little differently once introduced to an arc. I spend a great deal of time in the warmer months out with the lads on the bikes and as we all know accidents happen.
Unfortunately for me I'm the only one of us with a) a welding back ground and b) an acdc lump. I've done cases, pegs, swing arms the odd bit on a frame and the behaviour of the material to welding can vary so much. Some times it's a dream and seals in a single pass more often than not from my experience it fights with you all the way.