Anyone here experienced in veneering?

[GraemeVW]

Started a bit of a stupid project, a table with an oak outer frame and a veneered ply center.
I decided to take it apart, use thicker ply for the center, and 're veneer it.
I plan to fit the ply center and rebuild the frame and then veneer the ply center of the top after.
I'm unsure how much to sit the center section down though. I think the veneer is 0.6mm, and I assume glue won't add much. But should I aim for the veneer to end up dead flush with the frame?
Or leave the veneer a touch low and reduce the frame height with a scraper to get it flush?
Or leave the veneer high and sand it all flush after?

To my inexperienced mind, none of these options sound great.
I also assume the veneer won't be perfectly the same thickness all over.

My gut is telling me to aim for the veneer being slightly low and reduce the frame to flush it all out as that feels better than the veneer ending up slightly high.

I hate woodwork.

 

[GraemeVW]

To make thinks even stupider, I think I'm going to do the veneering in Louis cubes too, just to complicate matters

 

[TEO]

I've done a bit, my thoughts:
You'd be much better off completing the veneering process before assembly, are you planning on a vacuum bag?
The ply has to be excellent quality.
Buy decent veneer tape, makes the process faster.
Give the project to someone else if you can..... Client's can't pay enough for me to veneer stuff, long ago decided that life's too short.
Good luck

 

[GraemeVW]

I've done a bit, my thoughts:
You'd be much better off completing the veneering process before assembly, are you planning on a vacuum bag?
The ply has to be excellent quality.
Buy decent veneer tape, makes the process faster.
Give the project to someone else if you can..... Client's can't pay enough for me to veneer stuff, long ago decided that life's too short.
Good luck

Why veneer first?
Either way, I still need to set the tongue on the edge of the ply at the right height. I really don't want to round tongue on the ply once I've veneered it.

No, not vacuum bagging. I haven't decided whether to wet glue and use weight (I have a load of flat polished granite) or do what i did last time i veneered something simple and let the of a dry, then iron in on.

Paying someone else isn't an option, and I'd much rather do it myself anyway.

 

[DanZac]

Either way, I still need to set the tongue on the edge of the ply at the right height. I really don't want to round tongue on the ply once I've veneered it.

If you veneer the sheet before cutting the tongue, you can set the router to the correct height to sit it flush and not have to worry about glue thickness or sanding the frame.

Plus the router should leave a good edge to the veneer for the insert,. If not you'll have to try to perfectly align the veneer along the insert or trim it post glueing anyway. (Not sure that makes sense but I know what I mean )

 

[TEO]

Why veneer first?
Either way, I still need to set the tongue on the edge of the ply at the right height. I really don't want to round tongue on the ply once I've veneered it.

No, not vacuum bagging. I haven't decided whether to wet glue and use weight (I have a load of flat polished granite) or do what i did last time i veneered something simple and let the of a dry, then iron in on.

Paying someone else isn't an option, and I'd much rather do it myself anyway.

I'm not sure what a round tongue is, I've joined lipping with biscuits, dominos, a loose tongue and a tongue formed in the lipping ie.t&g. In every case the reference surface is the top finished (veneered) surface.
You have very little depth for sanding on a veneered surface before going through. Much more room for adjustment on solid lipping.
I'm sure you'll be fine whatever method you choose.

 

[GraemeVW]

To answer a few points, I'm not that good with a router, so don't want to rout the panel after veneering, just feels super risky. As I'm reusing the old frame, I also don't know if I wpuld get the tongue don't to EXACTLY the right size so that the center panel doesn't end up too big or too small.
Seems far easier to be to mount the panel in the frame and then veneer to the fixed frame edge.

I don't have much in the way of woodwork tools either, so apart from the router, it's all being done by hand.

I suspect my best bet, if using 0.6mm veneer, is to set the panel maybe 0.7mm low. Hopefully the veneer will end up flush, or a little low, and I can use a scraper to take the frame down a little.

 

[TEO]

Can you give an idea of the sizes involved pls?
With a relatively small piece you may not need any form of tongue to hold the lip just PVA & clamps.
Use a bearing guided cutter to standardise the depth & mounting the router upside down in a board even just thick + flat (properly flat) MDF will make the whole process more controllable. The router table needn't be huge, 18"ish square is a useful size.
It seems as though you're pretty set on assembly before veneering, the reason it wouldn't generally be done that way is that you're reducing the margin of error. But the project is yours, go to it

 

[GraemeVW]

Table is 3 foot square, frame is about 60mm wide.
The frame has a groove to take the tongue on the edge of the ply, the groove is 4.6mm down from the finished surface.

My fear is, I veneer the panel, then cut the edge to size to give the tongue, but as I'm reusing the old frame I need to male sure the panel ends up perfectly to size. I don't know if I will be accurate enough.
Not much chance of sorting a router table, even temporary.
the center panel was cut square and the right size, I'll use the edge guide on the router, set depth, and just run it round the edge.

To give you an idea of the scope of this project, I'm doing it in the kitchen, and anything messy on the patio, while dodging rain!!

Without even a bench, let alone a router table, would you want to try and cut the veneered panel in those circumstances?
I'll no doubt be routing it on the wobbly 2' round patio table!

I'm confident I can get the height of the tongue accurate, but I'm in no way confident the edge will be neat.
Doesn't matter if I glue it up and just veneer inside the frame.

I understand why it wouldn't be done this way, but with the circumstances it's being done in, with the tools I have, I think the 'proper' way has fat more margin for error

 

[GraemeVW]

I'm not a complete wood novice, I did 2 years at uni making 14th century acoustic guitars (30 years ago!!)

However, I'm REALLY not set up for woodwork!

 

[Parm]

Started a bit of a stupid project, a table with an oak outer frame and a veneered ply center.
I decided to take it apart, use thicker ply for the center, and 're veneer it.
I plan to fit the ply center and rebuild the frame and then veneer the ply center of the top after.
I'm unsure how much to sit the center section down though. I think the veneer is 0.6mm, and I assume glue won't add much. But should I aim for the veneer to end up dead flush with the frame?
Or leave the veneer a touch low and reduce the frame height with a scraper to get it flush?
Or leave the veneer high and sand it all flush after?

To my inexperienced mind, none of these options sound great.
I also assume the veneer won't be perfectly the same thickness all over.

My gut is telling me to aim for the veneer being slightly low and reduce the frame to flush it all out as that feels better than the veneer ending up slightly high.

I hate woodwork.

Many many years ago I had a very similar table, it had sat outside in a salvage yard, oak was good but veneered top ruined. After several more years sitting under the carport at home I decided to complete the project

Chopped it all up with a chainsaw and had an awesome bonfire

 

[Misterg]

Why veneer first?
Either way, I still need to set the tongue on the edge of the ply at the right height. I really don't want to round tongue on the ply once I've veneered it.

If you don't veneer first, you'll need to cut the veneer to the exact size of the recess and get it perfectly positioned when you glue it.

Can't you machine the frame and centre part before veneering, leaving ~0.6mm for the veneer, but don't glue it up?

Then veneer the centre part, leaving an overhang on all edges. When it's dry trim the veneer back to the machined edge of the centre part (small plane / sharp chisel / craft knife / sandpaper, etc.) then glue the assembly up with a perfect edge on the veneer?

Light sand and it's done.

 

[Dapph2]

I've done a bit, my thoughts:
You'd be much better off completing the veneering process before assembly, are you planning on a vacuum bag?
The ply has to be excellent quality.
Buy decent veneer tape, makes the process faster.
Give the project to someone else if you can..... Client's can't pay enough for me to veneer stuff, long ago decided that life's too short.
Good luck

Ply for table tops and top of furniture needs to be what is called balanced ply .. the grain going from top to bottom has to be at 90 degrees for each layer and have an uneven number of layers IIRC Both outer layers should have the ability to be fine finished. You're unlikely to get it the likes of B&Q . Most internet searches are rubbish and do not explain it .

I did 18 months two full days a week on a fine furniture making course where we were taught / learnt such things . Having a vacuum bag press or rubber bladder in a hefty press to flatten the veneer to the ply will give you a fantastic flat surface . Can you route the lipping down to the veneer thickness plus glue using a light palm router ? Do a test piece or two and also get the feel for the routings don't guess or your likely to ruin your table top .

 

[DanZac]

Without even a bench, let alone a router table, would you want to try and cut the veneered panel in those circumstances?
I'll no doubt be routing it on the wobbly 2' round patio table!

Sit the veneered panel on the floor, set your router to depth, clamp a straight edge to the panel and use that to guide the router (track saw style).

Provided your measurements are correct it'll come out sweet and be far easier and better than messing around trying to cut the veneer to size first.