Any thoughts on this?

[Porschemaniac]

Having spent the last few weeks replacing the timing belts, all front of engine oil seals and the water pump on my beloved 944, I finally got to the stage (last weekend) where was ready to fit the new water pump.

Having diligently cleaned the threads with a correct size tap and having purchased lovely new A2 Stainless bolts (which I trial fitted) all was good. So, the silicone went onto the gasket, the gasket onto the engine and all the nuts and bolts back in (torqued down to the correct 5NM).

Can you guess what happened!! On the very last bolt? Yep; spinning freely in the hole!!

Now, the pump is fitted, the silicone already drying and 10 out of 11 fixings in place. To be honest, I don't want to disturb it unless I really have to - but I guess it's far too late for a Helicoil in the affected hole?

I'm thinking; (1) 10 bolts, plus silicone - you can fit these gaskets dry - will probably be sufficient (2) if not, I guess my only option without removing the pump is a long series M8 tap - currently has a M6 bolt in it.

Hopefully, I won't need to go down this route, but I wondered if anyone else has experienced a similar conundrum?

Cheers,

Ian.

 

[TAITSIE]

Did you check the bolt lenths?

 

[aero]

My experience...take it apart and do the job properly. So what some silicone and a new gasket and a fair amount of messing about? If you are careful the gasket might be OK. Better then having it let go on the autobahn at 120 mph. Helicoil kits are cheap enough now.

If its 6mm I may even have one...where in Essex are you?

 

[gordon stephenson]

Hi, Check out the threaded hole depth, as suggested the bolt might be slightly short, If so in the past I have fitted a longer all threaded stud right to the bottom of the hole then cut it to length and fitted a washer and nut, Job done!!

worth a try if you do have good thread deeper inside the hole. a stud will always hold better than a bolt into soft material.

Cheers Gordon.

 

[Wedg1e]

.....on my beloved 944....

and

Hopefully, I won't need to go down this route, but I wondered if anyone else has experienced a similar conundrum?

Think you've answered your own question there! If you love it that much, why take a shortcut?

I rebuilt my Esprit engine a couple of years back; I found loads of silicon sealant in the waterways, sump etc.
So someone had one of the iconic British sports cars and treated it like some ratty old Datsun Cherry instead of spending a bit more time and effort and doing the job properly. No wonder these cars are reputedly unreliable. It's not the cars, it's the cowboys who bodge them up.

That said, for your application the stud suggestion is a close second...

 

[andypocock]

The bodge is to cut the head off a bolt and screw it in with some Locktite stud and bearing fixative in the hole. Let it set and then add a nut and washer.

If it was an old van and you needed it for work in the morning this might do but there is only one answer here - put it apart and do it properly. Apart from anything else the car just won't feel the same if you know there is a bodge under the bonnet.

Andy

 

[wyn]

The bodge is to cut the head off a bolt and screw it in with some Locktite stud and bearing fixative in the hole.* Let it set and then add a nut and washer.

I have seen a few bodges where the bolt has broken and the head is then siliconed in place to make it look good. Mostly agricultural stuff.

Oh! and some structural steel repairs

 

[Porschemaniac]

Think you've answered your own question there! If you love it that much, why take a shortcut?

Yep. Fair play. You know, it's just been a hard slog with this job - mainly sorting out work done by the previous owner(s). This included :

• A Balance Shaft that had been 'mushroomed' at the end, where someone has 'carefully' refitted the timing sprocket with a hammer!!
• The crankshaft Woodruff key, which looked as though it had been refitted, using a hammer and chisel (took some real fun and games to get that out!!!)
• The rear timing cover, which had not been correctly modified, when a later style water pump was fitted to the engine (legitimate mod on these engines). This had resulted in the cam belt actually cutting into the cover and part of it becoming separated (found it floting freely about, pivoting on the fixing bolt).

The job has taken me about two months (working only at weekends) so far and I guess that I had just run out of steam a little bit - hence the reason that I was looking for a shortcut.

Certainly would be ironic to have spent so long having corrected the work of previous owners, only to go and add my own bodge at the end of the job!!!

Think I'll give it a break over Christmas and attack it again in January with some renewed vigor.

If its 6mm I may even have one...where in Essex are you?

I'm in Leigh on Sea, Aero.

Thanks again for the replies guys and for getting me back on the right path (after I was drawn to the dark side).

Cheers,

Ian.

 

[Wedg1e]

If you'd REALLY been drawn to the dark side you'd drive a TVR

THEN you'd know what grief is...

 

[Porschemaniac]

Hmm....TVR.......Do those initials stand for Total Vehicle Reconstruction

Just a guess!!!

 

[Bigjoe]

Did i hear mention of TVR, one of my best mates back in london is on his third TVR he's had 2 griffiths and is currently on a cerbera and every one has been a pain in the ****,luckily im 400 miles away now

 

[Sam]

Hi Joe, pop over if you want aloan of a M6 helicoil have some here.

 

[Wedg1e]

TVRs are OK if you treat them like kit cars (ie be prepared to find an alternative way to how the factory did it)... but the main rule is: do NOT buy one if you are a new-moneyed, inexperienced, non-technical type with the attention span of a goldfish.

The majority of owners since the mid-90s are just that: newly-graduated IT bods with next to f***-all experience of cars other than what mummy and daddy bought them to get around in at Uni. They got access to lots of money very early on and thought what they really needed to reflect their so-called status was a plastic toy from Blackpool Pleasure Beach.
Unfortunately, being the Playstation generation, they thought if it went wrong you just hit CTRL/ALT/DEL and all would be wonderful again. Er, no. Lifting the bonnet and looking at things you haven't the first idea about is NOT going to fix it. Moaning on internet forums (as many of them did/do) won't help either. THAT is where the reputation for unreliability came from. It's the owners that are defective, not the cars

I know lots of TVR owners, most of them like me (and probably many of you on here) who served their time on old heaps in their teens, fixing it by torchlight at the side of the road, lying in a puddle with spanners you inherited from your grandad, probably using parts from the scrapyard under the railway arches - but all the time learning! Barring catastrophic failure (which can even happen on new cars), most of these people run their cars for years without major problems, many of them never seeing a so-called 'specialist' or dealer.

They are simple vehicles, largely built from parts of other vehicles. However they do demand more than a quick wash and vacuum on a Sunday morning to keep them in good fettle. Part of the attraction surely lies in the exclusivity aspect: the desire to be different, to own something that few others do, have or will (my car is one of only 103 ever built and probably only about 60 left) - not so much that it's better, faster, more economical or whatever: just different. Eccentric, perhaps.

If you've ever fancied being a biker but prefer 4 wheels, then a TVR - any TVR - could be for you! Few things start conversations with total strangers in car parks or create an irresistable urge to drive the long way home, quite like a Blackpool rocketship. Some people even run their own websites: Pistonheads started as a self-help group for S-series owners. My own offering is a bit more modest

Incidentally, TVR may stand for Total Vehicle Reconstruction and Tow Vehicle Ready but it also stands for Travelling Very Rapidly...

 

[zardoz]

Are you sure its too late for a Helicoil ?

ps: well said wedg1e, a good post. All kids should have the chance to work on cars at school, like they do in many other countries. Everyone should be able to do (at the very least) a basic service to their own car.