Any builders on here?

[GraemeVW]

I need a little more workshop space so I'm going to build an 8x4 block shed extension on the workshop.
I built the workshop 10 years ago but it was the first, and only, building I've ever built. I probably did things very wrong, but it's still up and it's bone dry, so can't have done too bad.

Anyhow, I removed the coal bunker and water butt from the raised platform I put in when I built all this.
It's going here...

Plan is to have a similar pair of doors, but obviously at 90° to the current pair.

It's just to house a compressor, lawn mower, spare wheels etc
I was planning to build the back wall, off of the garage wall and use one of those metal strips to tie it in.
On the door wall I was going to do a half block return on the left.
I wasn't going to put a post in the back wall, just as I need every bit of space I can get inside.
I was thinking of having a half brick return on the right, also tied to the workshop with one of those metal strip things.
I wasn't going to bother putting a little over the door. I was going to put a 3x2 door frame in, screwed to the blocks, then just use 3x2 for the roof. There would therefore be 5" of timber spanning from side to side.

I am putting a full size shelf about 2.5" down from the ceiling though. This will have a 3"x2" frame bolted to the inside walls and a 3x2 concrete lintle spanning the 8' width at the door opening. I plan to put a few spare wheels on this shelf so I want it sturdy.

My concerns, and reason for posting, is if it will be strong enough. I'm. It overly concerned about no pier in the middle of the back wall, but will that be ok?

My other concern is the half block return on the right. I can see wind banging a door if left open and those half blocks just getting pulled loose. Not much really holding them there. I could do that return in timber, or leave it out completely and put the right hand door frame upright directly onto the workshop wall, but i think a block return would look nicer.

Any general thoughts?
It's just a shed. I'm sure whatever I do will be fine, but it's not really my area of expertise so thought I'd run things by you all. Lots of knowledge on here!

 

[gaz1]

my advice would be to tell you to leave the doors in the same place and build walls either side of it

theres nothing worse in having to go to the side to then swing into a garage before you go into the next part

but thats up to

id say no to the 8ft span of doors using 3x2s but go ahead if you want to do if the wind does get hold it will rip it off really easily as goes for your roof structure its going to be beams 5" left to right would be the best way to run them and save money compared to lengths from the front to the back

as goes for your half block well it would be just laid flat and built like a sq pillar

 

[GraemeVW]

my advice would be to tell you to leave the doors in the same place and build walls either side of it

theres nothing worse in having to go to the side to then swing into a garage before you go into the next part

but thats up to

id say no to the 8ft span of doors using 3x2s but go ahead if you want to do if the wind does get hold it will rip it off really easily as goes for your roof structure its going to be beams 5" left to right would be the best way to run them and save money compared to lengths from the front to the back

as goes for your half block well it would be just laid flat and built like a sq pillar

There is no vehicle access if that's what your thinking.
The double doors on this new bit is just so I can access the compressor which will be behind one door, a d the lawn mower etc that will be behind othe other.

I would build the corners woth half blocks laid flat, that's what I did on the workshop, but it may stop both the compressor and lawnmower fitting. Its tight as it is!
I'll 're check and see if there is space.

 

[Agroshield]

Over the doors, if you are worried about sag, coach screw a piece of 100 x 5 flat bar to the back to stiffen it up.

You could fabricate some corner angles out of 5mm plate and bolt them on (internally, externally or both) to stiffen up the corner. Reinforce the mortar joints at the corner (bed joint reinforcement but I could not find one for going around a corner) and/or in the centre 1/3 at the back.

Put a spring-limited stay on the door (you could make your own with a rope, pulleys and weights and thus only have it activate at the extreme of travel). Bolt a pogo stick to the garage to civilise that door if it blows open.

Maybe at the back, put a stainless threaded rod inside and outside (or through the middle - debonded) with a tie over the top and squeeze it down well. If you could find a piece of T-shaped steel, you could put that midway along the wall to provide a windpost (tie it in well at the head end - your shelf will help to do that).

Judicious use of hollow blocks with vertical reinforcement and concrete infill could help with strength and not take up space.

 

[GraemeVW]

I'm now considering extending the workshop instead, just putting another 8' on the front.

Problem is it's 30m2, maximum before building control.
I assume I'd have to get them involved if I extend?
Issue with that is they will say the original building doesn't comply, (roof joists are a little small, no ventilation, no damp proof between soil and walls, footing too small, floor too thin) even though none of these are an issue in reality.

 

[gaz1]

since you are extending it forward the original building wouldnt come into the question as all you would be doing is fastening a beam close to the original wall or drill and fastening it to the wall your choice

damp coarse dosnt matter on a garage build

footing are depending on what you have you may have to drill down to find out how deep the concrete is footing can be made thicker in situe by digging at the side and under the concrete and then filling back up with concrete not an easy job but can be done

 

[GraemeVW]

since you are extending it forward the original building wouldnt come into the question as all you would be doing is fastening a beam close to the original wall or drill and fastening it to the wall your choice

damp coarse dosnt matter on a garage build

footing are depending on what you have you may have to drill down to find out how deep the concrete is footing can be made thicker in situe by digging at the side and under the concrete and then filling back up with concrete not an easy job but can be done

Do you mean the existing building is fine, and an extensuon wont make it class as a bigger building?

I am allowed 30m2, and its been up a long time, but would extending it mean i have to get it signed off by byuldung control?

I built the workshop, and I laid the concrete.
It's thin, probably 3" there, with 6" of hard-core underneath.
Easy to cut a channel in it and put footings in.

 

[gaz1]

your only extending the garage so anything existing dosnt come into it

the extension to the garage interferes with what your allowed on your property by a propotion of the area that you can build upon if your extension takes up more room than allowed it will be refused

the closer you build to the house property you run the risk of having to deal with planning instead of permitted development

up to you if you cut and dig out and refill new footings for the walls as it makes no difference

 

[GraemeVW]

Would end up about 4 or 5 foot from the house.
No where near 50% of the garden used up.

This sounds promising then

 

[gaz1]

if you intend to fit a dormer onto your property it affects that as well so beaware of this effect as well

but you should be fine

 

[Bobtail4x4]

if the total size of the building ends up over 30m2 it needs Building regs,
they may or may not look at the existing building depends how shonky it looks

 

[GraemeVW]

if the total size of the building ends up over 30m2 it needs Building regs,
they may or may not look at the existing building depends how shonky it looks

It looks fine, it is fine! If they want to say it doesn't comply then it just shows they over egg the regs.

If they assume it's fine, then what will they want to care about, how well I build a 7m2 shed extension?

Seems silly, but these things often are.

 

[gaz1]

london area abuses the permitted and planning development on what they can build in gardens

whilst everyone else is enforced with the rules of what they cant build theres is no one rule for all

 

[GraemeVW]

This is the existing building.

If it wasn't for all the soil in the way, I'd build something else on the back instead.

 

[GraemeVW]

if the total size of the building ends up over 30m2 it needs Building regs,
they may or may not look at the existing building depends how shonky it looks

I found the relevant info online that confirms it will all need to meet building regs.

I've no idea if it would or not though.
I think the span for the roof timbers may be 10cm too long for the size.
I suspect the foundations weren't deep enough, but they would never know.
I suspect they would want to see better damp proofing and better ventilation, but it's a workshop. Maybe they wouldn't care?

I'm not sure what would be involved to extend it legally. Not sure infant to ask either as, iirc, it's actually a tint bit over 30m2, maybe by 0.5m or something.

I guess building over the drain run would be cause for concern too.

Maybe I'll phone the local authority and see what they say.

What I can't find out though is what constitutes an extension. If I build the compressor shed, and use the garage wall as one of the shed walls, is that an extension? It's seperate floors, seperate doors, no access between, they just have one common wall.

If all else fails I'll have to build a second workshop. I have a handy place, unfortunately for some it's 4' from my neighbours back door

 

[addjunkie]

Digger for a day, free topsoil for gardeners, and extend out the back! Then knock internal wall through!

 

[GraemeVW]

Digger for a day, free topsoil for gardeners, and extend out the back! Then knock internal wall through!

It's not top soil, it's clay, with a smattering of dead tortoises.

I'd still be in the same situation though, with a building that isn't legal.

 

[addjunkie]

It's not top soil, it's clay, with a smattering of dead tortoises.

I'd still be in the same situation though, with a building that isn't legal.

I wasn't suggesting you break the rules, but at the back would raise less eyebrows with the neighbours

 

[GraemeVW]

I wasn't suggesting you break the rules, but at the back would raise less eyebrows with the neighbours

I really don't think either neighbour would notice what I did. Even if they did, I doubt they would know it's against the rules. And even if they knew, neither of them would care.

I guess the only real issue is when I come to sell the place.

 

[gaz1]

I found the relevant info online that confirms it will all need to meet building regs.

I've no idea if it would or not though.
I think the span for the roof timbers may be 10cm too long for the size.
I suspect the foundations weren't deep enough, but they would never know.
I suspect they would want to see better damp proofing and better ventilation, but it's a workshop. Maybe they wouldn't care?

I'm not sure what would be involved to extend it legally. Not sure infant to ask either as, iirc, it's actually a tint bit over 30m2, maybe by 0.5m or something.

I guess building over the drain run would be cause for concern too.

Maybe I'll phone the local authority and see what they say.

What I can't find out though is what constitutes an extension. If I build the compressor shed, and use the garage wall as one of the shed walls, is that an extension? It's seperate floors, seperate doors, no access between, they just have one common wall.

If all else fails I'll have to build a second workshop. I have a handy place, unfortunately for some it's 4' from my neighbours back door

an extension to the garage or an extension to the house means the same thing makes no difference if you try to imply anything else its still an extension to whats already there

only difference is a conservatory that also takes space off your garden

as goes for the size of it you would lose 0.5m as you are bound by the legal route within planning

going over the drain is the same most just use concrete lintels to bridge over the drains you can also do the same with the foundations as well