Aluminium Mig Welding

[MadV]

Hi
This is my first post so I apologise if its been covered before.

I need to know where I can get a Teflon Liner(Cebora130 circa 1985) for Ally pipe welding. Its mainly air con pipe/rads on cars so its light work I will be undertaking. I have a Sealey 185 as an alternative but I usual use it for car body work.

I did have a new BOC200C which we exchanged a job for a bit of labour but some nice person nicked it from my workshop-the only bonus is I still have the torch and regulator
Many thanks in advance

 

[fingers99]

Just about anywhere will sell you a teflon liner which, if it's long enough, will do fine.

But don't expect great results MIGing aluminium.

 

[nfinch86]

Mig Welding Aluminum !!

Just about anywhere will sell you a teflon liner which, if it's long enough, will do fine.

But don't expect great results MIGing aluminium.

Yes You Will !! ........... Spool Gun

.Norm

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

 

[shenion]

Yes You Will !! ........... Spool Gun

.Norm

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

Have had no need for a spool gun with the proper wire.

I doubt you will do air-tight welds with a MIG due to cold starts. I did repair a hole in a radiator with a MIG and it worked but had to start well off the hole to get the heat up by the time I hit the hole.

This stuff is not that bad for cold starts. Al MIG is to fiddly for repair work. By the time you get the settings right, you are more than done.

 

[fingers99]

This stuff is not that bad for cold starts. Al MIG is to fiddly for repair work. By the time you get the settings right, you are more than done.

In all this, remember that Scott is a very experienced weldor.

My view is that MIG is OK for production welding of aluminium, tolerable for fabrication, pretty hopeless for repair. I'd sooner use AC TIG, oxy fuel gas, or DC TIG for that, in that order. The first two are the only ones I'd be inclined to use on a radiator, the first the only one I'd trust for anything structural.

But machines do seem to vary a great deal in their ability to MIG aluminium -- you may be lucky, have the force with you, or just be damn good.

 

[craigthewelder]

With the machines you've got i'd say your best off trying to find some local to tig it instead.

I do a lot of Alu MIG welding and for the jobs we do its great but for lighter work I'd always go with tig.

Here's some alu mig done using our Fronius set.

 

[gordon stephenson]

Hello Craigthe welder,
lovely mig ally weld, Can you give us a few hints and tips please? Wire type size and speed,gas type(if anything other than pure Argon) can see cleaning to remove oxide but what sort of prep is required, Finally what torch technique do you use to achieve such excellent results.
I'v tried a little mig ally welding in the past, and to say it looked nothing like yours is a gross understatement!!

Cheers Gordon.

 

[craigthewelder]

Hi Gordon

Thanks for the compliments. A lot of it is down to the machine, we use one of these and it makes the job a lot easier, once you know what your doing with it gives great results.
As for the rest of the stuff we use Nexus 4043 1.2 wire, 1.4 Fronius tips (£2.50 a go!!! ) and pure argon. I always give joints a clean with a st/st wire brush before welding. As far as technique goes i don't do anything remarkably different from any other type of mig welding. The main difference is with alu you have a hot start and crater fill the end.

 

[gordon stephenson]

Thank you for the reply Craig,
I bought a butters(Fimer) synergic Mig,tig,arc 215amp. but retired now and having to catch up on all hours maintenance,re-roof,new fence etc you get the idea, so not had any real time to practice ally mig,I only have the other grade of wire 5*** can't remember number,Do you think it will be easier to get some 4043 or will the one I have be O.K.

Thanks Again Gordon.

 

[Uncle Joe]

I'm a bit dismayed to see that a professional seems to recommend mig welding aluminium to tig welding it...

 

[malcolm]

A strange comment there. MIG is a lot faster than TIG, so is used quite a lot for production and construction of big things. The link to the Fronius welder says it was specially developed for aluminium.

Thin aluminium with a cheap MIG is a pain. It's not really doable at all for anything under 2mm, especially if you need to be leak tight. TIG is a lot easier for alu even if you are new to TIG.

 

[Uncle Joe]

Not really strange at all, if you think about it. Yes, I understand that MIG is faster, and as stated, was originally developed for aluminium.

The thing is though, the original question referred to the welding of pipes and radiators for car air conditioning systems. If you remember, I posted a picture of an aluminium radiator that I made a while ago. My MIG welding is as good as my TIG, even if I say so myself. The reason that I chose to TIG it was that I know that for these kind of components, MIG will fail.

The point is, for every possible welding job, there is usually an optimum method, for ally, that is not usually MIG.

 

[Rusty]

With the machines you've got i'd say your best off trying to find some local to tig it instead.

I do a lot of Alu MIG welding and for the jobs we do its great but for lighter work I'd always go with tig.

Here's some alu mig done using our Fronius set.

Not really strange at all, if you think about it. Yes, I understand that MIG is faster, and as stated, was originally developed for aluminium.

The thing is though, the original question referred to the welding of pipes and radiators for car air conditioning systems. If you remember, I posted a picture of an aluminium radiator that I made a while ago. My MIG welding is as good as my TIG, even if I say so myself. The reason that I chose to TIG it was that I know that for these kind of components, MIG will fail.

The point is, for every possible welding job, there is usually an optimum method, for ally, that is not usually MIG.

With the machines you've got i'd say your best off trying to find some local to tig it instead.

I do a lot of Alu MIG welding and for the jobs we do its great but for lighter work I'd always go with tig.:

 

[Uncle Joe]

Heres a photo of the car radiator that I TIG welded a short time ago.

 

[craigthewelder]

I'm a bit dismayed to see that a professional seems to recommend mig welding aluminium to tig welding it...

If I've read this thread correctly and I'm pretty sure i have, everyone has recommended that he tig welds it.

Heres a photo of the car radiator that I TIG welded a short time ago.

Very nice work.

Thank you for the reply Craig,
I bought a butters(Fimer) synergic Mig,tig,arc 215amp. but retired now and having to catch up on all hours maintenance,re-roof,new fence etc you get the idea, so not had any real time to practice ally mig,I only have the other grade of wire 5*** can't remember number,Do you think it will be easier to get some 4043 or will the one I have be O.K.

Thanks Again Gordon.

I think the only difference between the wires is that 5*** has Magnesium as its alloying element and 4*** has Silicon as its alloying element. I could be wrong tho, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Uncle Joe]

Yes You Will !! ........... Spool Gun

.Norm

www.NormsMobileWelding.Blogspot.com

I took this as saying that he would have great results MIG-welding aluminium...or?

 

[malcolm]

I didn't understand what that post meant. Everyone thought you were having a go at Craig.

 

[shenion]

5356 has Magnesium. 40403 has silicon.

5356 is much easier to use as it is stiffer than 4043 so it feeds better. It also uses a lower speed; 4043 requires an insane wire speed. My Clarke 130 had the wire feed at 9 on the middle settings on 4043 and at 5 on 5356.

5356 will tend to eave a black residue from the magnesium; it wipes right off. It is stronger but is not supposed to be used on things that run at elevated temperatures on many alloys.

TIG is better for rework or repairs as you have more control. MIG is ok for doing many of the same thing as you need to fiddle with the settings and technique to get it to work smooth. A smart MIG with pulse can help considerably

Note: Al welding with MIG will go into globular or spray transfer early ( as low as 120A.) So positional is difficult. Also, the 4043 weld pool is very fluid, so sag and blow though is more of an issue.

 

[craigthewelder]

I didn't understand what that post meant.

Lol, me niether.

 

[craigthewelder]

5356 has Magnesium. 40403 has silicon.

5356 is much easier to use as it is stiffer than 4043 so it feeds better. It also uses a lower speed; 4043 requires an insane wire speed. My Clarke 130 had the wire feed at 9 on the middle settings on 4043 and at 5 on 5356.

The Fronius that we use doesn't really run that much more wire than it would normally runs when welding mild steel, I guess thats probably down to it being a pulse mig. I know what you mean about the 4043 being a soft wire, how it can run on a 4 meter torch surprises me.