Aloha! Fresh fish fancies himself as a welder

[Mighty Mike]

Hi guys,

firstly may i say hi and what a useful resource this site is! I have spent a few weeks reading through articles and threads on here to learn more about MIG welding.

I haven't done any welding in the past 3 years since graduating but will be getting back into it over the next year. I am doing a mini restoration (with a bit of custom front endage ) and need to get back on the wagon so to speak!

My first task is to find a suitable MIG welder. It needs to be able to withstand reasonably regular 'hobby' use; be versitile enough to work on mini panels as well as box section for the subframe, and ideally exhaust sections. My budget is about £400-500 for a 'ready to weld' setup (including things like a mask and gas etc)

After having read through various threads it would seem that a gas welder is suitable for me as i will be working in a garage so wind isn't an issue and i'm not a fan of spatter

WeldEquip appears to have a good reputation (hello if you are reading this!) I think we may be due a conversation!


Regards, Mike from Kent.

 

[Bigjoe]

Hello Mike,
Welcome to the Nuthouse! , id give weldequip a pm and im sure he'll be able to oblige for you budget.

Just a quick question,you dont know someone called paul vincent do you,he has various minis that ive had the pleasure (pita) of repairing over the years!

Welcome and enjoy

Bigjoe

 

[Endacy]

Hi Mike, I see you are fom Kent too! Welcome to the forum.

If you are thinking of using proper welding gas and not CO2 then i'd recommend you contact Adams Gas (www.adamsgas.co.uk) and see if you are in their delivery area. I recently got mine from there and was impressed with the price (very impressed with the price actually) and service. No connection other than a satisified cutomer!

 

[Mighty Mike]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I do not know Paul Vincent, well the name doesn't ring any imediate bells! This is my first mini project actually and i can't wait to get started! Put it this way..my new welder will be seeing a lot of action over the nest year!

As for the distiction between CO2 and 'proper' gas i am unsure of the distiction; would someone mind clearing this up a little before i go to town on the 'search' button!

 

[shenion]

CO2 works but creates a bit of spatter. The weld pool tend to be a bit too fluid and can burn though thin metal easily. Also has a narrow range of wire feed speed, so you need a good welder for consistent results.

"Proper gas" is argon/CO2 mixes and are tailored to a specific use. You have different mixes for short-arc, spray transfer and alloys. For mild steel, most any mix will do and be better than CO2.

Most common general-purpose mixes are 75/25 Ar?CO2, Argoshield, Garage Gas, Cougar and other names.

 

[irondarren]

CO2 gas is cheap, but leaves lots of splatter. Proper gas is basically a CO2 argon mix, normally 75% upwards of Argon, this gives a cleaner weld, a more stable arc, but costs more. Some members use CO2 gas purely because of cost

 

[Endacy]

I was one of those people! However i've looked at the cost of the CO2 I had bought, and my new weld gas and the price is actually very similar.

 

[Mighty Mike]

Oh right i see, looking back now i am sure i was using argon CO2 mix before, can this be a live mix? Ie. Having a canister of each and then mixing them together with a specified ratio? My memory is clouded but i'm sure i remember having a couple of canisters attatched to our welder.

 

[Drains]

Take a look here mighty one. More trouble than it's worth IMO. Just go and buy the stuff ready mixed...

Si

 

[shenion]

Oh right i see, looking back now i am sure i was using argon CO2 mix before, can this be a live mix? Ie. Having a canister of each and then mixing them together with a specified ratio? My memory is clouded but i'm sure i remember having a couple of canisters attatched to our welder.

You can get gas mixers; I have one: Custom Gas Mix

Won't save anything mixing yourself. I just got it to try different Ar/CO2 ratios. I do adjust to 100% Ar for TIG, and 75% Ar for MIG. Sometimes I do change the mix if my welds are a bit tall. Actually it would be much easier to have a tank of 75/25 and one of argon.

A mixer unit will likely cost you more than your welder. The Smith I picked up sells for $1495 + 2 regulators.

In the other thread, I can't see how the argon and CO2 tanks don't just mix together. Would be REAL dangerous if used with a 3300psi argon tank and it flowed to the CO2 tank designed for a nominal pressure of 900PSI.

 

[panrixx]

Hi Mike, I see you are fom Kent too! Welcome to the forum.

If you are thinking of using proper welding gas and not CO2 then i'd recommend you contact Adams Gas (www.adamsgas.co.uk) and see if you are in their delivery area. I recently got mine from there and was impressed with the price (very impressed with the price actually) and service. No connection other than a satisified cutomer!

I recently got a quote from Adamsgas for 9.4L cylinder (1.16m3 at 137bar) in either a 5%(argoshield light) or 20%(argoshield heavy) mix. Refill at £20.99 + vat, refundable deposit on cylinder £40.00 and delivery charge (to include collection of empty cylinder) £25.00 +vat.

In comparison Air Liquide (Plymouth) has quoted for AR/CO2 MIX 5 (10.2M3 at 200Bar) at £23.00 refill, and £6.70 rental per month plus £11.50 handling charge (ALL plus Vat).

BOC quoted their 'W' size cylinder (approx. 47L holding 8.5m3) at £41.96 refill, £88.65 rent per annum and £12.16 handling charge (ALL inclusive of Vat).

Obviously the last two quotes are for the full size bottles. If you assume you get through the equivalent of one full size bottle each year (min. 8.5m3) then the costs would be (approx.):-

BOC = £142.77 (Incl. Vat)
AL = £135.01 (Incl. Vat)
AG = £378.27 (Incl. Vat - rounding down to 7 refills for the equivalent 8.5m3 - ignoring the £40 deposit, as it is refundable).

Please feel free to tear my logic and calculations apart, but this is what I make it.

I thought it might be a good guide to the economics of bulk purchasing versus the smaller, more convenient method.

 

[malcolm]

The economics don't seem too daft. The real problem with rental is in hobby use. That's where £100+ a year stings and people start thinking about gasless wire.

The adams gas solution would work out economical if you use less than 1M3 every 6 months (That would be 17 disposable bottles if you could control gas flow on the dudes). I think my hobby usage is about 2M3 over 6 months so I'm better off on a rental.

As soon as you are on a rental the bigger bottles make a lot of sense. I'm on BOC size Y which saves a fair bit over size X.

 

[irondarren]

The bigger the bottle you have the better the price, considering BOC has a £12 odd handling charge, but you need to use a reasonable volume. The other good thing about BOC (assume the same with air products etc) is you have to have an account with them to get gas. Which means you dont have to pay for it on the spot. which can be handy to any DIY er who is monthly paid, and needs a bottle of gas and just doesnt have the cash to pay before the end of the month.


The other thing which might be worth you DIY ers looking into is a gas economiser, which basically stops the build up of pressure in the hose.When you are not using the welder pressure builds up in the hose and when you pull the trigger this pressure is released, wasting lots of gas. This little gizmo stops that. Think both diywelding and weldequip are likely to sell these
http://www.murexwelding.co.uk/

check the murex site, look under gas equipement,then gas mig/tig accessories. (sorry cant supply a direct like as it seems there site uses html frames)