A thousand (ish) Bridgeport questions

[Mintums]

Hi folks,

I'm finally finding time to start looking at the Bridgeport I got a while ago and I thought I'd start a thread asking a load of questions and trying to show progress.

A couple of weeks ago I was down south and managed to call in at Birmingham Machine Tool Services (thanks @Screwdriver for the heads up on them) who did a great job getting the worst of the milling marks, craters and holes out of the table, and also managed to put right the half ar.. hearted attempt at leveling the table done by the previous owners (or maybe abusers is more apt).

My folks are in the states in a couple of weeks, so I'm getting the refurb book, replacement feed nuts and a few other odds and ends so given this and the fact that the table is off, it seemed like a great time to give the thing a bit of a check over / tidy.

So on to the questions.....

The previous owner has been using grease rather than way oil and the gibs, ways and well, everything is caked with old solid dried on grease full of swarf and set like stone. Here's a gib and a before / after shot of the felt covers that wipe the ways.

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Plus a shot of the top of the saddle after a first clean up and ready to start the second.

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You can see from the gib how the stuff has set like tar.

My first questions are; does anyone have any recommendations on cleaning the ways, gibs etc? So far I've been using a combination of razor blad to scrap, scotchbrite and solvent to scour and then solvent and papertowels to clean off. It's taking forever though and part of my worries about potentially doing some damage to the ways.

Next question is whether there is a straightforward way of cleaning the ball crank handles, there are three that are a mix of rusty, dirty and caked in grease like this;

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I was planning to use scotchbrite again, or see if I can get a bench grinder with a wire wheel. Would steel wire be okay, or am I better going with something less aggressive?

Finally I'll throw in a couple of pictures showing the amount of rubbish inside this thing, partly just so that I can look back on them and feel like I achieved something.

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Once I get a bit further on I'll be back to find out the best way to prepare the shocking paint job that's on her and to find out what primer / paint should be used, either machine paint (Tractol seems to be recommended in that part of the forum) or whether its worth going for rattle cans. I've got a compressor, but no air dryer or spray gun sadly.

Cheers



Rich

 

[WorkshopChris]

Have found White Spirit is very good at softening old grease, works well out of hand held garden sprayer providing the cheap o rings don't soften.
A little local heat from a Hot air gun on low can sometimes help.
Will be following your rebuild.

 

[tinman123]

pretty much as chris says, its a slow job, id just buy new pipe rather than faffing about with what yo u have but get all the grease out.
some acetone might help a bit.
for the ports in the cast bits maybe rig up an air spray gun with a pipe that would fit in the hole and blast some cleaner of choice through it while following it through.

vactra No2 is your oil of choice after that.

as for the handles i cant see the pics of them in your post but id look into electrolysis rust removal on the tube if you havnt heard of it.
failing that a wire wheel on a grinder, or scotchbrite to get the sweat up.

 

[Newlands]

I've just cleaned all the grease from the oil ways on my lathe saddle - as well as solvents I found a toothbrush and various bits of wire handy (mig wire and brazing rods are good). Also a bit of compressed air. I guess if you have an oil gun you could also fill that with white spirit to clean the oil nipples.
The ball levers should come apart if you're careful - fit some soft vice jaws and see if you can remove the handles. Don't use a wire wheel as it's too coarse, scotch rite is much better (but I'd go with electrolysis first as Tinman123 suggests).

 

[Screwdriver]

I used a paraffin wash on mine. Paraffin gun and air compressor required. Works a treat and being paraffin, you don't need to religiously clean it off afterwards. Handles and surface rust can be dipped in citric acid. Get a tub, mix it up with wallpaper paste and gob it on everything for a day or so. Either that or electrolysis. I wouldn't use a wire wheel, bits of wire go everywhere and you run the risk of burning the surfaces if you're too aggressive.

Those Birmingham Machine Tool chaps are a friendly bunch aren't they

Screwd.

 

[Mintums]

I used a paraffin wash on mine. Paraffin gun and air compressor required. Works a treat and being paraffin, you don't need to religiously clean it off afterwards. Handles and surface rust can be dipped in citric acid. Get a tub, mix it up with wallpaper paste and gob it on everything for a day or so. Either that or electrolysis. I wouldn't use a wire wheel, bits of wire go everywhere and you run the risk of burning the surfaces if you're too aggressive.

Those Birmingham Machine Tool chaps are a friendly bunch aren't they

Screwd.

Aye, they were great. I took my Dad along for the run and since he used to work for GKN back in the day they were like a bunch of old fishwives chattering away.. Oh did you know so and so.. Oh and whathisface..

If only they'd have got chatting before I'd paid, I might have got a better discount!

Thanks for the info so far, I'll try and set up some electrolysis tomorrow night, I've tried it before on a Fergie t20 tvo tank, so have all the kit I need.

Never heard the idea of using citric in wallpaper paste though, am liking that one.

I'll also see about sorting an oiler sooner rather than later, I've been trying to clear the grease out of the oil lines in the castings with copper wire and thinners, but it's been slow and messy. Plus, it's tricky to get the wire around a sharp bend.

Chris, will give the mix of warm and white spirit a try, but does the heat make it more volatile? The stuff always gives me a headache for some reason, even more so than toluene does now, or trike ever did back in the day. Would love a couple of gallons of that to do the cleaning with, it'd just fly by.

Late finish at work, so no progress today, hopefully I can get something done this week though. If I don't try and keep some momentum it's never going to be finished.

Rich

 

[tinman123]

I used a paraffin wash on mine. Paraffin gun and air compressor required. Works a treat and being paraffin, you don't need to religiously clean it off afterwards. Handles and surface rust can be dipped in citric acid. Get a tub, mix it up with wallpaper paste and gob it on everything for a day or so. Either that or electrolysis. I wouldn't use a wire wheel, bits of wire go everywhere and you run the risk of burning the surfaces if you're too aggressive.

Those Birmingham Machine Tool chaps are a friendly bunch aren't they

Screwd.

i said to use a wire wheel on the handles to get the rust off them, why would you not use one to do that out of interest.
unless you thought i was on about wire wheeling the ways, which i wouldnt ever do.

 

[tinman123]

i was looking at your pics there mintums and i don't know how precise you'd like this mill to be but when you get her cleaned up and stuck back together id say your going to find there is a lot of play in things, and even tho you can tighten the Gib key it can go as far as taking the play out of the worst part of it but you would need a stiltson to wind it out fully either way if you do that.
don't get me wrong im not trying to rain on your parade its just some of my thoughts.
it depends on how tight you'd like it and how far your taking the resto.
slideway services will regind the table, knee and saddle for something round the 6-700 mark iirc, that id leave her tight.... and like a new pin.
but if all you want to do is drill holes or mill out something with a decent tolerance on it then it ill do the best the way it ill be.

 

[Newlands]

I wouldn't use a wire wheel as I think it's a bit too aggressive - maybe if it was a fine bronze wheel it might be ok, but a normal wheel always seems to drag the surface of the metal to me. That's why I prefer electrolysis - it doesn't affect the metal itself, only the corrosion. Each to their own though, don't want to start a pointless argument!
On a lot of restorations I've looked at on-line some people get super results by actually removing metal to get rid of rust pitting, using emery cloth in a lathe for example, and end up with super results - hence the 'each to their own' comment.

 

[Screwdriver]

i said to use a wire wheel on the handles to get the rust off them, why would you not use one to do that out of interest.
unless you thought i was on about wire wheeling the ways, which i wouldnt ever do.

I much prefer non-mechanical means because older machines develop a patina of age which just makes the overall machine look "right". So on handles for example, some parts are worn to a mirror like finish over decades of handling. Also it is surprising how robust the original finish is on some machines, electrolysis can remove rust but leave behind patination and OEM paint finish. Same with chemical de-rusting/cleaning. But it's personal preference really. With an awkward shape like a wheel and handle, sometimes you just can't get a brush into all the little corners and crevices, electrolysis gets everywhere.

S.

 

[Mintums]

i was looking at your pics there mintums and i don't know how precise you'd like this mill to be but when you get her cleaned up and stuck back together id say your going to find there is a lot of play in thing.....
but if all you want to do is drill holes or mill out something with a decent tolerance on it then it ill do the best the way it ill be.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. As long as I can get within a few tho I'll be happy. The ways have seen a lot of use and will probably be on the list to sort at some point, but the plan at the moment is to replace the lead screw nuts, clean out all the tar like grease, get it all looking something like half decent with a good clean and some new paint, then get a DRO arranged and fitted.

The handles went into an electrolysis bath tonight, so will see how it goes. Watch this space.....

 

[Screwdriver]

I'll be interested to see which DRO you go for and whether I should fit it before I reassemble the machine.

 

[tinman123]

dont worry lads, my aim isnt to start an argument on who's right, it never is.
i just like extending my arsenal of knowledge on my trade is all and as i like to do a job right, i like taking in other peoples views.

i get the train of thought on it, the finish the wire wheel leaves is like a gummy clean no doubt and if they were mine i wouldnt use one tbh, like ye id opt for the electrolysis route if i was going for a good restore.

i have all the ingredients here for the electrolysis but ive yet to give it a go.

 

[tinman123]

i went for an easson dro with the lcd screen and glass scales to suit mine.
altho not the cheapest its a good dro, when its working.
the first one spat the dummy out 2 mths in but it was replaced without any quibble by machine dro, sound bunch to deal with.
the replacement has worked away the best altho 2 or 3 times now ive seen the screen go white and blank, the only thing that brings it back is a tap to the side of it, probably something loose, id hope anyways..
but like i say, when it is working there is a raft of stuff you can do on it.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. As long as I can get within a few tho I'll be happy. The ways have seen a lot of use and will probably be on the list to sort at some point, but the plan at the moment is to replace the lead screw nuts, clean out all the tar like grease, get it all looking something like half decent with a good clean and some new paint, then get a DRO arranged and fitted.

The handles went into an electrolysis bath tonight, so will see how it goes. Watch this space.....

if your taking a couple of thou to be 2 or 3 then id be surprised if it is, put the table in the middle when you get it together and give it a rock left and right, id imagine like most there will be a right bit in it.
you can work round it but when youd be locking the table she will move quite a bit on the measurement, slackening off the leadscrew into the bit of backlash you will have before you lock it will reduce it a bit more.
like you mine is worn too, its not bad but id like to tighten her up a bit some day, ive bigger fish to fry for now.

 

[Screwdriver]

Not the most compelling review for the Easson DRO!

 

[chris-law]

I was looking at those too , i also read it doesn't hold its memory for more than a few weeks , which could be a pain for a hobby user as you would have to re enter the settings after the internal battery is flat .

 

[tinman123]

I was looking at those too , i also read it doesn't hold its memory for more than a few weeks , which could be a pain for a hobby user as you would have to re enter the settings after the internal battery is flat .

ive never timed how long it actually holds its memory but i do know if you switch it on , let it boot up and after a min or so knock it off it ill reset the memory function for another while.

Not the most compelling review for the Easson DRO!

apart from the first one exiting stage left this one has worked away good apart from the screen glitch but your right, not very compelling.
when i bought it i couldnt see anything else round the same money with as many functions but this wee screen glitch is taking the gloss off it a bit.

the other thing i was wondering, it has a 4th axis already programmed into it but no port for it on the back, the holes are there on the pcb board for another plug but its just not there.
i often wondered if you just soldered in a socket and plugged in a scale would it actually work.
if you buy a 2 axis es12 dro you get the very same as mine but with one less plug than i have, of course there may be pixies not installed between 2 axis and 3 axis dro's but something tells me there mightn't be, its quite possible its the same unit all the time just with a certain amount of ports.

 

[Screwdriver]

got any pix?

 

[tinman123]

got any pix?

id normally have a pic of everything, id take a lot of pics for no other reason than habit tbh but finding them is another thing.
i rummaged about and found these two, not much to see there, it was the time i was putting it on.

it dose a load of things, pcd, line boring, radii, angle calcs and so on, more than id normally use anyways.
has absolute and incremental settings so you always know where home is.
there wasnt much else at the time tbh, the reviews were good enough on them the few that are about.

what's not right inside that its taking a tap to bring the screen back from a white to green with the numerics on it i wonder?.

 

[Mintums]

Looks good tinman, you mind me asking what it set you back?

I was thinking about one linked on here a few weeks ago, a Chinese special from AliExpress.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/1524501216.html

Not sure what it can do in terms of software, but at that price I considered it was worth shot...