3d printer driving me mad!

[fizzy]

Well my Tevo Tornado finally came just after Christmas. So excited! First 2 or 3 prints worked fine. Been a disaster ever since!

I just wish there was a good forum like this - Facebook groups and Reddit just not the same!

They need far more tinkering than you would ever believe. Biggest problem is getting the first layer to stick. There is a sheet of red material supplied which is self adhesive and sticks to the aluminium heated bed. Works fine BUT once you get some heat there the adhesive lets go and you get big bubbles under the surface. The solution is very Heath Robinson. Place a sheet of glass over it - then use masking tape on the surface!

I am STILL getting adhesion problems. I have moved the bed as close as is possible. Tried all sorts of temps. Tried 3 different kinds of masking tape. Even sanded the tape to make it rougher!

Also the nozzle starts hitting the work after a while.

Then you have the Y axis shift - the extra weight of the glass causes extra problems. Apparently I now need to alter the stepper motor voltage as it isn't man enough!

It is driving me crazy!

 

[MCKDAVID]

Can't help specifically, but there's a lot of good info on the reprap forums, might help out.. I've been looking into this for a while, and decided I'm going for a Prusa I3, already looked at a few online, will pick one up when I get home.

forums.reprap.org

 

[carbon]

Haven’t got one myself but seems painters tape or glue stick on the bed can help. Also adding a skirt increases the surface area

 

[mart13]

You need to avoid draughts.
Any change in temperature really affects the build quality.
The best idea is to build a box to encase the printer and add a small heater and thermostatic control to keep the temperature constant.
What the best temp is you will have to experiment with....
The nozzle to bed gap is critical and also the parallelism so this gap is constant over the whole range of the print.
They are very fickle creatures........Not quite what they are advertised!!!

 

[hotponyshoes]

You want some PET double sided bonding tape.

 

[knighty]

I use kapton tape on mine - buy the wide rolls so you don;t need as many bits

you can buy it in sheets, but it's a pain to get it down flat

chop up an old cardboard box and put it around the machine cover the sides/back/top

what material are you printing with ?

 

[steve_s]

Been kind of thinking about getting one my self looking at a anet a8 flea bay have some @£99
Theres a lot of vids on you-tube about upgrades and mods but after your comments might hold on for a bit

 

[fizzy]

Printing with PLA.
Leveling bed with feeler gauges at all 4 corners.
Tried almost every kind of tape including blue scotch at £7 a roll.
Even when I do get proper adhesion something else will go wrong!
I have more patience than most and a pretty good understanding of machinery!

 

[fizzy]

Haven’t got one myself but seems painters tape or glue stick on the bed can help. Also adding a skirt increases the surface area

Tried all of that lol.

 

[Dutch Welder]

Are you printing ABS or PLA, for a novice I would begin with PLA< prints much easier then ABS (where drafts etcetera can wreak havoc on an otherwise perfectly setup printer)

How have you calibrated the extruder??
Did you do the 20mm cube , and alter the X/Y steps/mm, or did you use the correct way (= calculating the steps, and adjusting the extruder steps to get a 20mm cube)
The first method can give you a printer which prints perfect 20mm cubes, but anything else could be the wrong size.

If you are starting to hit the printed object chances are you are overextruding filament, but if you calibrated your printer the wrong way the Z axis could be moving up to little.
Then after a certain amount of layers printed the thickness of the printed object is to high (as if you are overextruding 10% for example an object thats 10 layers @ 0.2 per layer that should be 2mm is now at 2.2mm high) and this coupled with a Z axis stepper which moves up to little because of the altered steps/mm you may have entered will cause serious problems after a certain amount of layers.

Thomas Sanladerer on youtube has an excellent video on why/how to calibrate your extruder, I would begin with that.
TBH I've never heard of glass being to heavy for even a very modest stepper, so before going adjusting voltages etcetera I would try and get the E-steps right, the bed level, and do a test print directly on the bed with tape and spray.
If that comes out right I would try the glass, if not then the glass is not the cause of the current problems with your stepper.

If you still have problems with prints that do not stick shoot me a PM, or report back in this topic, and I'll try and help out more.

A upgraded Anet A6 owner myself (E3D extruder, uprated belts and tensioners , Mosfets on board and heated bed), and currently working on an all metal bowden tubed one as well, using a Megatronics board.

 

[knighty]

I use a sheet of A4 paper to level with, easier/better than a feeler gauge (easier to slide in/out, doesn't scratch etc.)

and normal (80gram) paper is the perfect 0 hight

as above, sounds like print heat must be contacting the print (or very close to it)

or maybe you're head temp is too low, sp prints what to stick to it

 

[PhillipM]

Slow your jerk and acceleration speeds way down if you've got Y-shift with the glass on, they're probably way too high as default anyway, try something like 7.5 and 1000.
Ditch the masking tape and put either a thin coat of watered down pva on the glass, or a really light, dry spray of rattle-can lacquer. (with the printer off, obviously).

Unless you're spending 5k on a printer then you can expect them to take a lot of tinkering and setup work, no matter what you buy.

 

[fizzy]

Are you printing ABS or PLA, for a novice I would begin with PLA< prints much easier then ABS (where drafts etcetera can wreak havoc on an otherwise perfectly setup printer)

How have you calibrated the extruder??
Did you do the 20mm cube , and alter the X/Y steps/mm, or did you use the correct way (= calculating the steps, and adjusting the extruder steps to get a 20mm cube)
The first method can give you a printer which prints perfect 20mm cubes, but anything else could be the wrong size.

If you are starting to hit the printed object chances are you are overextruding filament, but if you calibrated your printer the wrong way the Z axis could be moving up to little.
Then after a certain amount of layers printed the thickness of the printed object is to high (as if you are overextruding 10% for example an object thats 10 layers @ 0.2 per layer that should be 2mm is now at 2.2mm high) and this coupled with a Z axis stepper which moves up to little because of the altered steps/mm you may have entered will cause serious problems after a certain amount of layers.

Thomas Sanladerer on youtube has an excellent video on why/how to calibrate your extruder, I would begin with that.
TBH I've never heard of glass being to heavy for even a very modest stepper, so before going adjusting voltages etcetera I would try and get the E-steps right, the bed level, and do a test print directly on the bed with tape and spray.
If that comes out right I would try the glass, if not then the glass is not the cause of the current problems with your stepper.

If you still have problems with prints that do not stick shoot me a PM, or report back in this topic, and I'll try and help out more

Thanks for that - yes using PLA.

The 2020 cube actually printed great. And the spool holder was pretty good but there was a slight Y axis shift which is apparently a known problem.
I then noticed the red adhesive sheet was bubbling so ordered the sheet of glass.

I have not tried the extruder calibration yet!

 

[fizzy]

Slow your jerk and acceleration speeds way down if you've got Y-shift with the glass on, they're probably way too high as default anyway, try something like 7.5 and 1000.
Ditch the masking tape and put either a thin coat of watered down pva on the glass, or a really light, dry spray of rattle-can lacquer. (with the printer off, obviously).

Unless you're spending 5k on a printer then you can expect them to take a lot of tinkering and setup work, no matter what you buy.

I saw a youtube video where a bloke said even changing all the parameters he was still getting Y axis shift - he cured it by upping the voltage to the stepper motor.
I have nothing to lose by trying it!

 

[fizzy]

I use a sheet of A4 paper to level with, easier/better than a feeler gauge (easier to slide in/out, doesn't scratch etc.)

and normal (80gram) paper is the perfect 0 hight

as above, sounds like print heat must be contacting the print (or very close to it)

or maybe you're head temp is too low, sp prints what to stick to it

Yes I have also used normal paper - just dragging slightly.

Head temp 205 to 210C.

 

[PhillipM]

Yes, but that's because he'll be generating more force with the higher voltage, if you lower the jerk and acceleration you won't need as much force anyway, you're trying to accelerate more mass with the glass bed and F=ma

 

[Dutch Welder]

My original questiopn still remains.
How did you calibrate the printer?

Did you print a test cube, measure, then add the % difference to your X/Y steps OR

Did you do a 100mm feed of filament to the extruder, then measure the actual fed filametn and alter the Extreder Steps/MM, and leaving the X/Y steps alone.

The second method is the only correct method IMHO.
This guy explains it perfectly, and it solved much problems on my A6.
I used the cube and X/Y steps,a nd had perfect cubes all the time, sadly everything else was wrong. like threads not fitting, oversize etcetera, then I followed this guide and most problems were fixed. The undervoltage thing could be a Tevo thing, but should be done then as well, but please make sure the extruder is calibrated before changing glass/voltages etcetera.


WHY NOT

HOW TO

 

[Normsthename]

I am STILL getting adhesion problems.

Been there, watched the film, read the book and bought the T Shirt
I have tried pretty much all the methods printing on glass, printing with ABS juice, printing on hairspray etc etc
My current preferred bed soulution is to use glass with PEI plastic.
You can buy PEI sheet, it is not cheap but it does work!
I have near 100% success rate with this setup
The PEI is fixed to the glass with a 3M sheet adhesive.
You can then clamp the glass and PEI to the heated bed.
But better still I used PC graphics card heat sink pads, stuck a grid of those on the heated bed and the glass does not move and it is still removable if required.
All I do now is clean the PEI with isopropyl alcohol before a print and It works a treat.
Once printed I let the print cool down and it pops off the PEI very easily.
I print PLA and ABS with this setup.
One last thing I would suggest is to get a Infrared Thermometer to make sure that the bed is actually heating upto the correct temperature.
My 3D Printer tends to heat on the cool side, I have the temperature set approx 20 degrees above the set temperature to get a correct reading with the thermometer.
Hope this helps

Andy

 

[fizzy]

I have checked the cube and it is nice and square! So I think calibration is ok but will check again.

I also have a good infra red thermometer.

As regards the PEI with the 3m adhesive - doesn't that bubble with temperature?

 

[Normsthename]

As regards the PEI with the 3m adhesive - doesn't that bubble with temperature?

No problem, PEI is a high temperature polymer.
There are some people who are experimenting 3D printing with higher temperature polymers.
PEI needs an extruding temperature of around 340 - 360°C so a bed temperature of 110°C for printing ABS for example is no problem.
I have used the PEI for a while and the only problem is not scuffing the PEI when removing finished prints.
Prints can stick too good!

Andy