13A sockets...

[steve.h]

Hi All.
I recently needed to put my Portamig 215 on a 13A socket, I have been amazed that I have got it up to power setting 9 and run several inches of weld at a time.
It got me to thinking (not a good thing), I hired a sunbed earlier in the year as I was going on holiday and am very photosensative due to meds I take, The sunbed was run using two 13A plugs. I realised how this worked (the plug ring main in the house being 32A etc).
So can I run my welder in the same way, using a cable connecter and having 2 leads with 13A plugs coming from the power cable from the welder, IIRC the Portamig 215 is a 25A fuse, which it has built in so is safe from going bang as I understand it. The power draw will be split between the two 13A plugs so should be fine.
What do you guys in the know think ??

 

[miggins]

My guess is that it would be ok provided the sockets in question really *are* on a ring main and not a spur with a single cable. Mind you, even a single 2.5mm cable is rated at anything from 20-27 Amps, apparently, depending on how it's run.

No doubt a professional sparky can confirm it one way or the other.

 

[Gritineye]

Don't do it mate, I had similar thoughts and even made up a cable, the sunbed must have some sort of system so that when only plug is plugged in the other one is not live.

The way we both have thought of doing it the live pin will be exposed so anyone handling it may well die!

This has been discussed before

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=35483

 

[zx9]

As above ^^^^^^ don't do it.
I hope that the sun bed was wired as two separate banks of tubes each been powered from their own 13A outlet. I can not see other anyway that it would have been safe to use nor how it could pass any safety tests or be fit to hire.

 

[rich r]

Indeed - drawing current from two sockets for one circuit isn't allowed in the BS1363 (and later derived) specifications. As above, I would suspect that the sunbed uses one socket for one bank of lights and the other for another bank of lights, and the two are completely independent.

Fit a proper 16A or 32A socket, fed by the appropriate cable, protected by the correct MCB in the consumer unit if you need more than 13A.

 

[miggins]

I knew there'd be a snag - and that there would be some experts on hand to point it out.

Looks like it's the hard, expensive way or no way!

 

[Wozzaaah]

I knew there'd be a snag - and that there would be some experts on hand to point it out.

Looks like it's the hard, expensive safe way or no way!

^ I've edited that bit for you.

 

[miggins]

Yes, of course - thanks for that.

 

[the snooper]

it is possible to do what you suggest using a relay and diodes so that both plugs are isolated from each other when only one is plugged in, but would be better removing the 13 amp socket and fitting a 16 or 32 amp if the wiring is up to it, also if you happen to use 2 different sockets that were on different phases then bang goes your welder

 

[steve.h]

Yes You are right the sunbed was two banks of lights with one being the lead and other a slave sort of thing, both banks had a dial timer with the second only working when the first one was on.
What I have got in my shed is a spur off of the 13A downstairs ring main, this has a 32 amp socket and I have a 6mm "extension cable" running along the fence to the shed with a 32A socket and a 4 strip 13a plugs for my lights and small power tools, I am only ever using the welder or a power tool, I cant do more than one thing so feel that it is reasonably safe, as you all know the socket ring is run on an rcd and the 4 plug has an rcd built in.
I can unplug the "extension cable" when I am not working in the shed so there is nothing on if I am not in there, this is great as you dont have to go outside in the dark and rain to turn the lights off that you forgot.
I feel it is safe, but please correct me if I am wrong...
Cheers.
Steve.

 

[Apache]

The two plugs with a trailing socket commonly knows as a widowmaker.....

 

[MattF]

I feel it is safe, but please correct me if I am wrong...

It has already been mentioned that it isn't safe.

 

[steve.h]

MattF. I was actually refering to the second post I wrote, using a spur with a single 32A socket, I then run a 6mm "extension cable", I do understand the danger of using the two 13A sockets, I was purely curious as to if it would work, I understand that if you had one plug out then it would be dangerous.

I was just asking if the extension lead from a 32A socket on the wall indoors as part of the ring main was safe to use, especially as it is on a ring with an rcd and has an rcd at the other end.

Being an extension lead it is then not "hard wired" and so the housing association dont have a problem with it.

 

[brightspark]

MattF. I was actually refering to the second post I wrote, using a spur with a single 32A socket, I then run a 6mm "extension cable", I do understand the danger of using the two 13A sockets, I was purely curious as to if it would work, I understand that if you had one plug out then it would be dangerous.

I was just asking if the extension lead from a 32A socket on the wall indoors as part of the ring main was safe to use, especially as it is on a ring with an rcd and has an rcd at the other end.

Being an extension lead it is then not "hard wired" and so the housing association dont have a problem with it.

a ringmain isnt designed to take a 30 amp supply from any point in the ring. be it a spur or on the ring verry true it will work of your lead that can be unpluged but the 30 amp socket is fixed wiring

 

[steve.h]

I see your point but on the other hand a kettle and a big toaster or similar will draw as much power as the welder, that would be from the same double socket in my kitchen.
As I said I only ever use one item at a time in the shed so I dont think I would ever get near the 32a, the welder is the biggest draw at 20a, so I could have got away with using 16a plugs.
I did install a full on supply from the CU etc when I lived in my last house, I just dont have the money to do that again. I put the cable I use inside conduit to protect it. I am happy using it, I dont think anything will go wrong with it all, as said I do unplug the cable when finished in the shed.
I am not sure how long I will be using this set up as I am not able to do as much as I was intending to, I am just not able to physically able to do it, so I might have to take another direction as my hobby.