10mm rod to 3mm flat bar

[Loansharc]

Hi fellas this is my first post on the forum! I am a total beginner, proud owner of an ESAB 145 for two days.

I am putting together a simple frame that requires 10mm rod to be welded at 90 degrees to 3mm x 25mm flat bar. I have pre drilled holes for the rods to be mounted into, and im looking for some advice on both clamping and the actual welding technique for that setup.

I bought one of those magnetic 'arrow' clamps to hold the rod at the correct angle, but unfortunately the 10mm diameter is too narrow and ended up melting the plastic innards of the clamp. Also after making a tack weld, removing the clamp moved the rod, so any chance of accuracy was scuppered! This is why I'm not sure what clamping method to use now.

With regards to the weld, what is the best method to use when welding something round to a flat bar.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Kent]

put the 10mm bar into a vice offer the 3x10 flat up to it, put a quick tack on then persuade it into dead square. you then put another tack or two on it (checking for square) then button it up. Failing that clamp the flat bar down and offer up the round.

The trick is tacking it so you can still do the persuading.

If you have a few to do make a fixture could even be wood if its just for a few off

 

[skotl]

I was going to suggest wood, too. It's a lot less hot and relatively easy to shape. Plus you have the benefit of having to set rod so a 10mm drill bit will become your friend for sorting out the part that holds the rod.

Edit: Welcome to the forum

 

[PTvor]

If you've only had the machine for two days and are a total beginner, this is an ambitious weld.

I've got a couple of those arrow clamps but I don't use them much.

I'd say codge something up from bits of scrap that will allow the bar to be clamped at 90 degrees with C clamps or whatever you have, tapped into place and set with a square, and allow access. All those 2 or 3" stubs can be ever so useful for this sort of thing. Wood's another possibility as said above.

 

[Welderpaul]

Those clamps are only any good for holding drawings on machines!
Hold the bar slightly canted away from you, tack near side and as the tack shrinks it will pull the bar square. Check it, the add another couple of tacks. Easier to show someone than describe it.

 

[Kent]

Those clamps are only any good for holding drawings on machines!
Hold the bar slightly canted away from you, tack near side and as the tack shrinks it will pull the bar square. Check it, the add another couple of tacks. Easier to show someone than describe it.

I might have said the same until very recently about the mag clamps. They are actually great for tacking up (rubbish for welding) and as you say super for holding plans down. Its one of those things isn't it, strangely there are half a dozen u-tube bits on passing a pipe test to every one on how to tack up two bits square and its hard as heck to put into words that can be understood by any who haven't had it demonstrated.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

If you have a metal bench top you can weld bits of scrap to it to form a jig, just a few tacks strong enough to keep the work in place but weak enough so that a clout with a hammer will knock the bits of scrap off when finished.

 

[pedrobedro]

Drill a hole in your flat and put the round in the hole, weld it from the back then level it off. Now get your plastic mallet and beat it to where you want it.

 

[rich r]

I've used wood to hold parts at approximately the right position to allow a couple of tack welds on a few occasions. Yes it tends to char and occasionally catch fire, but that doesn't matter.

As said above - a good technique (with or without supporting things like wood) is to put a single tack on and then use your free hand to bend/hold the bar so it's in the right place as the tack cools. Then tap things with a hammer to ensure it's all perfectly square and put on a couple more tacks. Then reposition the lot so you can weld the joint properly.

 

[Loansharc]

Thanks guys, good ideas here.

I've used the 'tack and adjust' method before. Me and me dad made a weightlifting frame and he did that to set the vertical posts in the right position. I was hoping my clamp would do the job but no joy there.

You're right in saying this is an ambitious weld at my level, I've got plenty of scrap so I'll keep burning out the pads till I feel confident about it. Would you make two tacks at opposite sides of the rod then join them up with two separate passes?

I'm using DCEP 6013 2.4mm rods.

 

[Bill Edwards]

It's one of those things that takes plenty of practice to get good at. When you do a tack, you have to think about which way it will pull the metal, and which way you will be able to adjust it. A tack in the wrong place won't allow movement a certain way, though I don't really know how to explain, in words, how.
I'd get a tack in, position it for a tack on the opposite side and join it up as you said with two passes - though others may have better ways.

I will certainly say that this is an ambitious weld, round parts require some nice hand movement to keep the rod angle correct, and the smaller the part the harder this is in practice.

 

[Kent]

Thanks guys, good ideas here.

I've used the 'tack and adjust' method before. Me and me dad made a weightlifting frame and he did that to set the vertical posts in the right position. I was hoping my clamp would do the job but no joy there.

You're right in saying this is an ambitious weld at my level, I've got plenty of scrap so I'll keep burning out the pads till I feel confident about it. Would you make two tacks at opposite sides of the rod then join them up with two separate passes?

I'm using DCEP 6013 2.4mm rods.

I think you have things about in order. I cant call it ambitious personally if you have put the practice in and you have the ideal rod for the job

 

[Loansharc]

I think you have things about in order. I cant call it ambitious personally if you have put the practice in and you have the ideal rod for the job

That's good to hear. I've spent ages cutting and fitting all the parts for this job, I won't rush into welding it until I'm confident about doing a suitable job.

I must say I've been humbled by how much skill goes into welding. I've had a few goes over the years in my dads garage on his old oil-filled AC beast, but until you try to do something properly you don't realise how crap you are!

 

[Kent]

hey, the more you try it the less bad you get

 

[PTvor]

That's good to hear. I've spent ages cutting and fitting all the parts for this job, I won't rush into welding it until I'm confident about doing a suitable job.

I must say I've been humbled by how much skill goes into welding. I've had a few goes over the years in my dads garage on his old oil-filled AC beast, but until you try to do something properly you don't realise how crap you are!

A very few people can see it done and then try it and it all works. Most of us are not so fortunate, and it takes practice and learning by messing it up.

If you try things which are too hard and make a mess of it, you just get fed up, especially when you've spent money on the materials and spent time cutting and fitting them.

Try the boring basics like taking a piece of thick plate and laying down beads until you can get them straight and even without thinking about it too much. Then try butt, lap and fillet welds on scrap. What's that got to do with what you are doing? I think you'll find quite a lot.

Then get some scrap similar to what you are using on your project and try the welds you are attempting on that. Much better than jumping in at the deep end and spoiling materials or trying to convince yourself that what's not a very good job is good enough.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Well said PTvor.

 

[Loansharc]

Update on this project:

I've been practising trying to tack the rod to the 3mm bar, and I'm having real problems. The weld always seems to favour the rod, and it just falls apart once the clamps are removed. You can clearly see that there is weld deposited on the rod, but the bar is almost untouched.

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong? The bar is earthed as the assembly is sitting on an earthed plate.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Has the bar been made clean and shiny with a grinder?
Point the welding rod more into the flat bar, rather than the round rod.

Fillet joints aren't the easiest to get right and it's easy to have this problem, and on something round it's going to be harder yet.

 

[PTvor]

Photos are good when looking at welding problems.

Rubbishy rods will tend to favour one side or the other. That also happens if you have the arc too long or the current too low.

Try using a 2.5 mm rod and upping the current to about 90A and really push the rod into the angle between the bar and the flat. That's just for the tacks. You can also heat up the rod first by striking it on a bit of scrap and making a quarter inch bead and then immediately do the tack.

Can you do a decent fillet weld on two bits of flat plate? If you can't, and from your previous posts, you'd be making fast progress if you could, then you are going to find this hard.

 

[Kent]

favouring one side is rare on tacks as a rod fault it usually occurs from uneven flux to core centring and becomes evident on a longer run. upping the amps could help as above and keep a tight short arc if the arc is too long it will take the easiest path and move towards it. go back to the pad and test out how high you can run at with a little biddy arc before you stick in the puddle