Elliott Concord 460

[Hojin]

While cleaning the machine. I removed the Threading/ Feed Charts by mistake.
I searched for the chart in many places and couldn't find it. maybe because its an old machine.
if anyone can help me to find the charts?

 

[MetalMonkey]

You could see if Tony over at lathes.co.uk has anything on these machines or anybody over on practical machinist might run one of these, I suspect it's a little bit big for the hobby forums.

 

[pressbrake1]

While cleaning the machine. I removed the Threading/ Feed Charts by mistake.
I searched for the chart in many places and couldn't find it. maybe because its an old machine.
if anyone can help me to find the charts?

See machine manuals.co.uk
Tony at lathes charges as if he’s recovering costs from writing and publishing the things !

 

[Smouser]

@Hojin, Welcome to the forum.

You can buy a Concord 460 manual for £18.50 which is not too bad.

In my Elliott OMNISPEED manual, it has the feed charts inside.

However, there are no guarantees they will be in the Concorde manual.

I have had some new feed charts made for my machine.

Have a look at these posts:
Post 1
Post 2

Finally, if you can't find the feed charts in the manual, you have two more options.
Option 1: Google images of 'Elliott Concord 460' to see if you are lucky enough to get a few results.
Option 2: Google 'Elliott Concorde 460 forum' where you will find other forums with members who own Elliott Concorde lathes who might help you out.

Try variations in spelling too. Many people miss the last 't' in Elliott when they type it and I also see that 'Concord 460' are sometimes spelt 'Concorde 460'

Good luck!

 

[Hojin]

this plate what i want

 

[Agroshield]

This plate what I want

Watch the video from which you have pulled the still frame-by-frame all the way to the end and you can glean enough information to reproduce the imperial and metric charts.

 

[Agroshield]

Just noticed there is a mistake in the above. I have 2mm and 4mm pitch using the same settings, which is impossible.

4.5mm looks dodgy as well (C cannot be the second letter).

Will have to think harder about what they should be.

'M' is metric; 'W' is Whitworth.

B -> A -> C is multiplying by 2 each time.

E -> D is multiplying by 8.

 

[pgd]

Watch the video from which you have pulled the still frame-by-frame all the way to the end and you can glean enough information to reproduce the imperial and metric charts.

View attachment 450301

Hi Everyone,

Just landed on this forums because of this thread on Elliott Concorde 460.
I acquired one recently because it was literally next door and could not let it go to trash.
Therefore my step dad who was a machinist all his life and I don't understand how to interpret the feed plate.

On my other machines, like on the milling one I have clear indication of levers positions and speeds I can reach.

Here, in the manual they give the feed plate more or less like above, I understand the M or W selector but how does the rest works?

The 460 has 4 levers on the top, the 2 in the middle are interlocked, the number of positions on each lever varies but there isn't any marking to match any of "2CD or 5BD or 5AE ... " to the levers.

@Agroshield @Smouser or any other do you have any knowledge of how it works please?

Thank you very much for your help.
Kind regards
PG

 

[Smouser]

Hi @pgd , welcome to the forum.

I have never seen an Elliott Concorde 460 in real life.

Please upload a few photos. I am sure a few people would like to see your lathe and will probably be able to help from the photos as well.

*Edit*
Can you learn anything from this video?

You can also make out some lever marking in this photo

 

[Agroshield]

You can also make out some lever marking in this photo

That picture is gold dust. Thankyou.

Left lever is A, B, C; second lever is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; third lever is 6, 7, 8, 9; fourth lever is D, E.

 

[pgd]

You're awesome guys! Thank you very much.
As you can see the rust and time simply eliminated all indications on levers... based on your replies and photos I'll order / make a new lever plate indication. And probably also a new feed plate.

Here is the beast:

 

[Nick DV]

You're awesome guys! Thank you very much.
As you can see the rust and time simply eliminated all indications on levers... based on your replies and photos I'll order / make a new lever plate indication. And probably also a new feed plate.

Here is the beast:

View attachment 527402
View attachment 527403
View attachment 527400

Yep, that's a beast! Welcome to the forum

 

[Smouser]

You're awesome guys! Thank you very much.
As you can see the rust and time simply eliminated all indications on levers... based on your replies and photos I'll order / make a new lever plate indication. And probably also a new feed plate.

Here is the beast:

View attachment 527402
View attachment 527403
View attachment 527400

Very cool!

If you have a manual for this lathe, it would be great if you could upload it here or scan it and upload it here.
You can use your phone to 'scan' the pages if you don't have a dedicated scanner. The Google Drive app has a nice scan feature.

I have not found a free manual for this lathe online.

We can then upload it to Vintage Machinery too.

B. Elliott & Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

 

[pgd]

You saved me lot of time so I think this forum deserve the manual I have but it's too big (~30MB) to be uploaded here, so I just submitted it to Vintage Machinery (this site helped me too to get manuals of my grinding machine).
I'll add the link to it when document approved.

Therefore the apron in the manual does not match the machine I have, I couldn't find any history on the brand, so likely to have made different versions...

 

[Smouser]

You saved me lot of time so I think this forum deserve the manual I have but it's too big (~30MB) to be uploaded here, so I just submitted it to Vintage Machinery (this site helped me too to get manuals of my grinding machine).
I'll add the link to it when document approved.

Therefore the apron in the manual does not match the machine I have, I couldn't find any history on the brand, so likely to have made different versions...

Awesome!

Thank you very much! It will help the next guy out!

 

[Agroshield]

I couldn't find any history on the brand

See:

Elliot Cardiff Major, Senior, Prefect, Crusader

Elliot Cardiff Major, Senior, Prefect, Crusader, <br>Omnipspeed, Omnitool & Omniturn Lathes

www.lathes.co.uk

They also made milling machines (and dividing heads).

Are you aware of the French usinages forum and passion-usinages ? There is a lot of good stuff there.

 

[pgd]

Yes heard of it, also you have usinages.com with loads of topics but not much about ELLIOTT / BUTLER.

Here is the manual : Elliott Concorde 460 Operating & Maint Manual And Exploded Views

But it does not match exactly the one I have.
By any chance, anyone would you know someone that could held spare parts for this lathe? Looking at a missing 30 teeth gears, or fixed steady or travelling steady.

Thanks

 

[Agroshield]

Looking at a missing 30 teeth gears, or fixed steady or travelling steady.

Change gears will be a standard specification so are available from a stock gear supplier (in the UK HPC Gears is one). The difficulty is sometimes the centre detail if it is splined. Take a picture of one of yours, preferably with an even number of teeth and measure its outside diameter.

A modern approach is a 3D printed gear. A Chinese 3D printing house would print one in metal for you. A delrin one could be used. In the UK, on eBay there is a seller you_engraving who offers this service.

Steadies will be nearly impossible to find. The travelling one could be fabricated from a picture; fixed you might have to buy anything of compatible size and alter the base to fit your bed.

 

[pgd]

@Agroshield Thanks for your advices, I'll figure out something but we never know if someone stop by and has some spare parts to sell...

In the mean time, looking at the feed plate from the manual, the feed plates on the lathe and some calculation with AI, I was able to recover all information. I'm sharing here a PDF with all thread possibilities, worm gear cutting (on internet the worm gear cutting never appears, but my lathe might be an older version and had this information), as well as all long and cross feeds.

The feeds were provided in inch per turn, the table in mm/turn is my suggestion based on a conversion of all speeds possible according to all gears' combination available. I had to make some rounding basically.

Also made a new feed plate, it's in low quality but if someone need it in high quality drop me a message.

 

[Smouser]

Great work!

I like it.