- Thread starter Bill Edwards
- Start date
It's a BC164D I could see on one of the pics. A very widespread unit, Newage must gave made ten of thousands of them.
Almost certainly it's got an SX460 AVR - it might well state the AVR model low down on the dataplate.
If it is the 460 data is widely available. 2 wires are Exciter pos & neg etc
OK, my old scribblings (usually MeccAlte 4-pole, 12-wire alternators, but iirc the BC164D is a12-wire as well, so it's the same principle.
In 3 phase standard guise from the factory, it'd be configured to Series Star.
Each of the points of the Star is a phase L1, L2, L3, while the centre point is N (& should also be linked to Earth so you have no N-E voltage potential, & the Alternator needs to have its chassis Earth point going to Earth via a Rod or similar).
For 1 phase we'd always convert to Series Delta (a matter of just moving the star point connections on the terminal block & splitting them onto the 3 star point wires i.e. where our 3ph live output cables would be connected - of the old 3ph Star points - as per the image I'll add below which uses the Meccalte wire numbers).
Note in the image the 3ph Star centre point wires are moved so 1 gets 12 added, 5 gets 4 added, and 9 gets 8 added.
You then have a Series Delta, and the original 3ph Star Live connection posts are now Delta connection posts as per the image.
Again, the selected N needs to be linked to Earth as above.
An offload test run & Meter check should prove you have your dedicated 1ph output across two Delta points.
I'm not sure I've explained that at all well, but I hope it helps.
Note: if its a 6-wire alternator you can do very much the same, the difference is its less coils, so it's just altering from "Star" to "Delta" configuration.
In 3 phase standard guise from the factory, it'd be configured to Series Star.
Each of the points of the Star is a phase L1, L2, L3, while the centre point is N (& should also be linked to Earth so you have no N-E voltage potential, & the Alternator needs to have its chassis Earth point going to Earth via a Rod or similar).
For 1 phase we'd always convert to Series Delta (a matter of just moving the star point connections on the terminal block & splitting them onto the 3 star point wires i.e. where our 3ph live output cables would be connected - of the old 3ph Star points - as per the image I'll add below which uses the Meccalte wire numbers).
Note in the image the 3ph Star centre point wires are moved so 1 gets 12 added, 5 gets 4 added, and 9 gets 8 added.
You then have a Series Delta, and the original 3ph Star Live connection posts are now Delta connection posts as per the image.
Again, the selected N needs to be linked to Earth as above.
An offload test run & Meter check should prove you have your dedicated 1ph output across two Delta points.
I'm not sure I've explained that at all well, but I hope it helps.
Note: if its a 6-wire alternator you can do very much the same, the difference is its less coils, so it's just altering from "Star" to "Delta" configuration.
AVR. The AVR is a basic 4-wire, single-phase sensing unit.
X & XX are Exciter +ive & -ive (iirc it's counter-intuitive in that X is + and XX - ). Wire from T7 on the AVR should be piggy-backed on with your N-E point on the terminal block, while wire from T8 should be piggy-backed onto your Live.
(If you check your existing wiring, you should find that AVR T8 wire is on L1 of your 3ph setup, while AVR T7 wire is at the Star centre point group of 3 wires & the N-E Link. Keep them so they are getting L & N in the same way when you move the wiring to Series-Delta & you should be good).
X & XX are Exciter +ive & -ive (iirc it's counter-intuitive in that X is + and XX - ). Wire from T7 on the AVR should be piggy-backed on with your N-E point on the terminal block, while wire from T8 should be piggy-backed onto your Live.
(If you check your existing wiring, you should find that AVR T8 wire is on L1 of your 3ph setup, while AVR T7 wire is at the Star centre point group of 3 wires & the N-E Link. Keep them so they are getting L & N in the same way when you move the wiring to Series-Delta & you should be good).
Bill's images early on in the thread will add to the above but with Newage specific nomenclature - the reconfig process via the terminal block is the same for both brands of 12-wire alternators (& others).
In 3ph a Newage will be the image on the left, & to go to 1ph you reconfig to the image on the right. That should give you 230vac between any 2 Delta points (i.e. 6 & 7, 6 & 8, 7 & 8).
In 3ph a Newage will be the image on the left, & to go to 1ph you reconfig to the image on the right. That should give you 230vac between any 2 Delta points (i.e. 6 & 7, 6 & 8, 7 & 8).
Thanks so much fella.
Much appreciated.
I do understand what's happening i just needed some guidance in a different language to what I'd been reading and your explanation is exactly what I needed.
Nice one!
I just noticed these responses as i was going to bed, but the next and final question is,
Can I switch between series star and series delta somehow, so as to use the unit as dedicated 3ph to dedicated 1ph?
Im obviously not trying to take both single and 3 phase feeds out of it, i just don't want to have to reconfigure the wiring each time i want to use it a different way.
Im not sure if that makes sense, I'll check what I've written when Im more awake.
Regardless, thank you so much for your help, i really appreciate it!
There are gensets (usually Rental Spec ones for versatility) that have a changeover switch to allow for easy/quick switching from dedicated 3ph to 1ph & vice-versa...... but you need I think a 10-deck rotary packet switch to unmake & remake the configuration that we've been discussing manually.
You also need dedicated outputs for the 3ph mode & 1ph mode as well.
To do it it'd be a LOT of work and you'd struggle to source the rotary packet switch to achieve it.
(The only company I know of that builds switchable sets here in the UK is Stephill Generators - I suspect they are getting a switchgear Mfr to build those 10-deck changeover units specially - my guess would be Santon Switchgear make them). It's a lot of wiring and head scratching to work out what connections to make without a Stephill wiring diagram to copy as well.
Overall its a lot simpler to swap it over manually & live with the extra time taken if it's a rare / occasional need. Once you've done it a couple of times you'd do it pretty quickly - and if you had 2 external Breaker / setups with fly leads & terminal rings on (one for 1ph, 1 for 3ph) you could reconfigin quite a short time.
It is an SX460 AVR (or rather a clone as your alternator is a clone Newage) - so it's the 4-wire unit I mentioned and showed a diagram of.
Thanks fella, that's exactly what I was thinking, i just didn't know what switch i would have been looking for.
I will look into it further as it would be much better that way, it's difficult to predict what power we'll need next and it'll only be one or two people who have the knowledge to swap it over with potentially many more wanting to use the genny.
Massive, massive thanks for your input fella.
Really, really appreciate it.
I do love a good head scratcher so i wouldn't mind working out the wiring.
Although I'll contact Stephill.
Hopefully they're as helpful as they were years ago when I spoke to them about a genny of theirs i was using.
Thanks again fella.
Well bloody hell.
What absolute legends.
Stephill spoke to me for 30 minutes, went through everything and sent me the attached diagram for switching.
Couldn't ask for better assistance, especially seeing as im in Australia and unlikely to purchase anything from them!!
The only thing was the fact that the diagram id followed previously for 415v three phase was Parallel Star and Stephill said to go for Series Star.
And the intended Parallel Zigzag for 240v single phase should be replaced with the configuration shown on the diagram which i didn't end up finding out the name of.
Anyway, ordering a switch this evening and looking forward to getting set up!!
What absolute legends.
Stephill spoke to me for 30 minutes, went through everything and sent me the attached diagram for switching.
Couldn't ask for better assistance, especially seeing as im in Australia and unlikely to purchase anything from them!!
The only thing was the fact that the diagram id followed previously for 415v three phase was Parallel Star and Stephill said to go for Series Star.
And the intended Parallel Zigzag for 240v single phase should be replaced with the configuration shown on the diagram which i didn't end up finding out the name of.
Anyway, ordering a switch this evening and looking forward to getting set up!!
I used to do quite a bit with Stephill and they do build some very nice sets. Their quality, price & the switchable features, plus socket arrays etc though did mean it was Rental Sector where their bigger stuff was aimed at.
Their portable stuff is tidy as well, and aimed at the tool hire & construction market - but they would build single voltage and CTE stuff to order.
Always decent to deal with - but fair play they've really gone above & beyond
