Jaguar XF 3.0tdv6 weird issue

[BrokenBiker]

My father has got the above mentioned car on a 2010my

He has got an issue where, if he drives in standard driving mode the car goes into limp after 2-300 yards with faults relating to MAP sensors. However, if he drives in dynamic mode it doesn't happen at all.

This issue is also more prevalent in icy weather.

We have changed the MAP listed as a fault but as with jags, it made no difference and we don't fully believe what the fault is telling us.

Live data looks spot on while driving, even in limp mode the values all look good.

When stationary we can rev the b'jesus out of it and no faults appear but as soon as its in drive and actually driving, limp mode...turn off and on and it's fine again until driven, or put into dynamic mode which has been the temp fix for now.

Anyone know anything about the PAS engines in these cars? He has had it a good few years now and it's been a lovely car up til now

 

[voipio]

Check for leaks in the air intake side, especially the part which the MAP sensor is measuring. The intercooler might also be a place to look.

 

[Ubique]

Check the live value for the IAT (with the engine running, otherwise the value will be much higher than it should be), and as above, check for intake & charge air leaks - ideally a smoke test, cracked inlet manifolds on the cylinder heads are quite common along with split charge air hoses.
Live values for boost will be completely different when there is no load on the engine compared to being driven.
It's the same engine as used in a Discovery 4, there's a wealth of guesses and actual diagnosis out there if you search landrover sites.
What DTC's are you getting?

 

[dobbslc]

Could it be a fault in the gearbox telling the car to go into limp mode? They are all closely linked in modern cars.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Could it be a fault in the gearbox telling the car to go into limp mode? They are all closely linked in modern cars.

I did initially think that as my x type will flag gearbox fault on the dash for virtually anything...last time was the egr being stuck open

 

[BrokenBiker]

Check the live value for the IAT (with the engine running, otherwise the value will be much higher than it should be), and as above, check for intake & charge air leaks - ideally a smoke test, cracked inlet manifolds on the cylinder heads are quite common along with split charge air hoses.
Live values for boost will be completely different when there is no load on the engine compared to being driven.
It's the same engine as used in a Discovery 4, there's a wealth of guesses and actual diagnosis out there if you search landrover sites.
What DTC's are you getting?

We are getting p0060 and p006a which come up as a sensor on the cat and a map correlation issue

 

[RWD3M]

Have you had a look here yet:

XF / XFR (X250) 2007 – 2015

Discussion and General Information on the First Generation (X250) Jaguar XF... XF SE, XF SE Business, XF Luxury, XF Premium Luxury, XP Portfolo, XF Diesel S Premium Luxury, XF Diesel S Portfolio, XF Supercharged, XFR, XFR-S and all XF Sportbrake versions.

www.jaguarforum.com

 

[BrokenBiker]

Have you had a look here yet:

XF / XFR (X250) 2007 – 2015

Discussion and General Information on the First Generation (X250) Jaguar XF... XF SE, XF SE Business, XF Luxury, XF Premium Luxury, XP Portfolo, XF Diesel S Premium Luxury, XF Diesel S Portfolio, XF Supercharged, XFR, XFR-S and all XF Sportbrake versions.

www.jaguarforum.com

I think my father has been looking there, we have been battling this issue since the end of summer and have tried changing sensors, live data, logging what happens and when etc but nothing makes any logical sense at the moment.

The only thing we haven't done yet is a smoke test

 

[Dozzer]

As @Ubique says, you need to go through the intake system, as there are lots of lovely places for it to leak.
The O-rings in the Y piece that sits in between the cam covers can leak, and they Y piece is a slightly different design to the ones in the Disco and RR. and they can crack, they had to be designed differently for the PPL crash test.
If you get a leak post MAF, it changes the Air/Fuel ration and can upset the Cat sensors.

 

[BrokenBiker]

As @Ubique says, you need to go through the intake system, as there are lots of lovely places for it to leak.
The O-rings in the Y piece that sits in between the cam covers can leak, and they & piece is a slightly different design to the ones in the Disco and RR. and they can crack, they had to be designed differently for the PPL crash test.
If you get a leak post MAF, it changes the Air/Fuel ration and can upset the Cat sensors.

Thanks for that, will pass it on to him

 

[Munkul]

Is this not a typical fault of a split inlet manifold? Apparently very common, although it didn't happen on my last one (160k)or this one yet (107k)

 

[voipio]

Don't forget to use a mirror to see the rearside of the air ducting. I've known cracks in the airways that were out of sight, causing fault codes. Not on these Jags, though.

 

[Ubique]

The only thing we haven't done yet is a smoke test

Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably the second check that any reputable workshop would (or should!) do given the symptoms, anything else is just wasting time & money.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably the second check that any reputable workshop would (or should!) do given the symptoms, anything else is just wasting time & money.

we are enither reputable, nor a workshop...everything we have done has been in the howling wind at the road side so far given the time we have both been available to look at it

 

[BrokenBiker]

Is this not a typical fault of a split inlet manifold? Apparently very common, although it didn't happen on my last one (160k)or this one yet (107k)

it does seem that way. best we can tell at the moment is there is no crack, my only real test was to spray a bit of ether around while it was idling, no build up of revs when we tried so kinda ruled that out for now

 

[Ubique]

it does seem that way. best we can tell at the moment is there is no crack, my only real test was to spray a bit of ether around while it was idling, no build up of revs when we tried so kinda ruled that out for now

The crack won't open up whilst idling, only under boost - hence the need for a smoke test.

 

[BrokenBiker]

little update to this, after much back and forth, some days its been fine, others its in limp mode from the moment its started but clears after turning off again a new issue developed...

DPF full red warning, however live data says dpf is only 10-15% full...so, pulled it apart yesterday as we were getting nowhere quick...

turns out there is a crack, but not where you would expect it. the inlets usually crack along the seam from what i can find, however this one is cracked right along the underside of the inlet, 3 cracks actually, as if it has been hit by something and started to shatter.

so, little go with the hot staple plastic welder and a smear of aviation grade resin leveraged from work and it now 'seems' fine apart from we cant get the DPF light off, even though it says restricted performance, but its definitely not in limp mode. new inlet is on order as a back up incase the 'temporary' repair decides it actually wants to be temporary.

all in all a good result so far.