smart meter

[the snooper]

Ah, it's a meter today, next it'll be the implant 'for your convenience'

On a related note, radio advert t'other day pushing smart meters talking about how if you get one, you'll get accurate bills.

We already get accurate bills.

Also, how if you get one you can see how much electricity you're using.

Isn't that what those numbers on the meter are for? I read those, it tells me how much electricity I'm using.

no they are past tense, what you've already used

 

[brightspark]

I'm really going to check what my welder compressor lathe ect uses NOT

 

[the snooper]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=were+doomed+i+tell+ye&biw=1920&bih=964&tbm=isch&imgil=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM%3A%3BQpjPClJTw4cdRM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%252Fp%252Fwe-re-all-doomed-doooooomed-i-tell-you%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM%3A%2CQpjPClJTw4cdRM%2C_&usg=__Tdo190BME6M7KCSL8hDbYixQsdo=&ved=0ahUKEwjMgNWKtLDPAhXEDcAKHfTJCCQQyjcIPg&ei=PdnqV4zuKMSbgAb0k6OgAg#imgrc=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM: ffs I'm only getting a meter put in

wait until they hack them, put your battery powered radio on and you'll have a disco as its randomly switched on and off

 

[the snooper]

I'm really going to check what my welder compressor lathe ect uses NOT

you already have in the past with a clamp meter

 

[the snooper]

I already know how much I'm using at any one time, things have labels on with a wattage rating and it's simple maths from that.

Or, I can time the flashy light if I really wanted to.

yeah I don't get why people don't know, if you have a 1000 watt appliance you are using a unit an hour so easy to work out and the smart meters only tell you collectively what you are using

 

[rtbcomp]

I think they can tell you in £p what you're using or have used.

 

[the snooper]

I think they can tell you in £p what you're using or have used.

I think you are right but that said people know when they are using electricity needlessly

 

[brightspark]

yea the gas meter tells u each day how much it cost to run boiler in £ so get a new boiler fitted and u will see how much less its supposed to use

 

[wookie]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=were+doomed+i+tell+ye&biw=1920&bih=964&tbm=isch&imgil=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM%3A%3BQpjPClJTw4cdRM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%252Fp%252Fwe-re-all-doomed-doooooomed-i-tell-you%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM%3A%2CQpjPClJTw4cdRM%2C_&usg=__Tdo190BME6M7KCSL8hDbYixQsdo=&ved=0ahUKEwjMgNWKtLDPAhXEDcAKHfTJCCQQyjcIPg&ei=PdnqV4zuKMSbgAb0k6OgAg#imgrc=bMMgzr9sFKfmxM: ffs I'm only getting a meter put in

and brightspark wins the award for the longest link ever posted

 

[brightspark]

and brightspark wins the award for the longest link ever posted

nahh I won that last year

 

[WorkshopChris]

What i can't understand is how or why so much of this stuff is internet connected, why not closed networks.

 

[the snooper]

What i can't understand is how or why so much of this stuff is internet connected, why not closed networks.

cost I suppose

 

[wookie]

wait till some muppet sticks access to a nuclear deterrent online...

War Games anybody ?

 

[WorkshopChris]

Should not be to hard for the utilities with a little planning, that already lay infrastructure just run another few cables when ever that lay or renew a pipe or cable run.
Data is not my thing but they could still use existing off the shelf kit just as a closed network, everything tied down with mac address filtering? and good practise.

Cost (building something bespoke, well coded and well pen tested will cost an eye watering amount and someone could still in theory get access by penetrating a comms provider / direct attack on a hub point / tapping into the fibre (not as hard as you think with the right skills and resources...plus who bats an eye at someone digging up the road??)

I know direct access is possible as you say who bats an eye at someone digging up the road? but that's a lot harder than sitting down at a desk 6000 miles away.

 

[gaz1]

so what savings are you really making

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/0..._more_than_consumers_report/?mt=1474994657767

Smart meters will benefit suppliers nearly twice as much as consumers in terms of cost savings, according to an assessment by the late Department for Energy and Climate Change.

 

[rtbcomp]

1000watt appliance, run for an hour = 1 unit.

The price for one unit is on your bill.

It's not brain science...

....

Well I for one can't remember how much per unit I pay, so if my meter can tell me how much I'm paying at a given time it makes life much easier. I'd rather my meter worked out 1.869 kilowatts at 15.7 p/KwH = 29.3433 p/hr rather than me, even if I could read how many Kw I was using at a given time with my conventional meter.

 

[normspanners]

Yeah, ok, it burns the gas more efficiently but it doesn't put the heat into the water with the same enthusiasm so it actually costs more to run.

Makes me laugh too, with condensing boilers they only work efficiently when the water returns at a set temp of 55 deg or less, many houses I have been in, the lock shields are wide open and have spoken with loads of plumbers and they say oh we dont bother full open and turn down one turn's, good enough !! they either dont care or dont know !!
The sisters in laws house for instance the return water was about 5degs less than the outgoing and was supplied and supposedly all set up on a grant system to help save energy every load shield wide open, could have only been condensing when the system is cold, they didnt know/ understand, what a load of cr&p.

 

[daleyd]

Should not be to hard for the utilities with a little planning, that already lay infrastructure just run another few cables when ever that lay or renew a pipe or cable run.
Data is not my thing but they could still use existing off the shelf kit just as a closed network, everything tied down with mac address filtering? and good practise.



I know direct access is possible as you say who bats an eye at someone digging up the road? but that's a lot harder than sitting down at a desk 6000 miles away.

Almost no scada systems I work on have any access to the outside world, the ones that do (not many that I've come across mind) are generally not critical applications, and even then the access will be limited to a corporate network. I've certainly not worked on any utilities in the uk that aren't completely separate networks for their control systems, most also have things like physical security for servers and no usb ports on client PCs etc. As an example we have a system at hunterston power station, we are not allowed to use any memory devices to make any changes so all engineering work has to be done on site at their development server.

I wouldn't say it's not going to happen but in my experience most stuff (in the uk at least) is pretty well designed. It's not surprising that a website for the cyber security industry will have scary stories about hacking into infrastructure though!

 

[normspanners]

interesting------- http://www.yougen.co.uk/blog-entry/1946/Is+your+condensing+boiler+actually+condensing'3F/

 

[rtbcomp]

Fair enough.

It just doesn't bother me enough to want to know...

me neither

I can see it being used to save a little money, but how much?

Is the 'saving' made by going and buying a slightly lower powered appliance really going to outweigh the cost of replacement plus time doing it? (A kettle for instance, an 1800w one uses less power in a minute than a 2kw, but it takes longer to boil - you save no money and fritter away valuable seconds of your life waiting for it to boil...)

Actually the 1800 watt kettle may take longer AND cost more because whilst it's heating it's also losing heat.

Taking the argument to extremes*, if you have a perfectly insulated kettle a 1 watt element will eventually boil the water, it may take a few days and will cost just the same if you have a 10 Kw heater, but if the insulation isn't perfect the 1 watt element will never boil your kettle, so you'll have wasted the electricity and your time.

*For illustration purposes only, other methods of heating water are available.