Vertical and underside TIG?

[Ho55]

I can MIG weld, but i'm a total TIG novice, who is about to buy a machine.
One thing that is running through my head as a i plan my first work is, How easy is it to TIG vertical and underside of part? (That applies to Steel and Alu)

 

[Jim Davey]

Aside from the physical difficulty its pretty easy, it's just not comfortable tigging overhead.

 

[Shox Dr]

But it is nice not to have molten metal raining on down on you

 

[Kent]

Not as hard as you might think if you can weld on the flat
In the main it's just understanding were to place the torch and the filler rod
I haven't done positional ali with tig that I can remember at least

 

[Richard.]

Easier than mma. Unlike Mig and mma you are in 100% control of how when and where you put the weld metal. You shouldn't have any problems with it running back on you. Use your last two fingers on your torch holding hand as a prop for keeping steady if it's possible.

 

[chevy2]

Most of my tig work is vehicle related,
Yeah, admittedly i do more welding downhand but still do a fair amount of vertical and overhead,

You'll soon learn that with Tig and unlike mig or arc that gravity is not your enemy,
vertially all of my overhead Tig work is done laying on my back and with the pedal under the side of my knee,

no real secrets except always try to be inthe most comfortable position and ideally where possible a support for your head
(Surprising how much your neck aches after supporting your head with a helmet on after an half an hour or so)

One more thing, practice, lots!

 

[norlander]

I'm a novice at TIG but suprised myself when I did some vertical etc away from the bench. First attempt was with a lift TIG WP9V, so nice little torch. Next try was with a -several expletives deleted- WP26 with rocker trigger.
Nextime, was CK17 and a pedal.
Think I prefer switched torch to pedal -thats for all non ali work, I have done ali with a switched torch on the 4T LOG, bench only though, would think propping on ali would be tough due to heat-it gets friggin hot . Not done much off bench work though, but points I picked up were.
get comfortable
if you have to do short runs, so be it
"dry run" the bead to make sure you are not going to snag up
Cut filler rod down if needed, ditto tungsten to fit smaller back cap
If you get a 17 or 26 torch with your new kit, you can get shorty collets and cups etc, think you can interchange torch heads as well-not sure on that-need to watch what amps the torch will handle for ali AC I think .
you might not be able to hold the torch "pen style" every time, you might have to hold it "hammer" style.
Pre sharpen several tungstens

 

[Richard.]

Aluminium is easier to do out of position then ferritic type metals on dc. It's way quicker if you jack up the current get going, you can cover a lot of ground in a short space of time meaning that stop point to let your arms down comes much sooner.
Dc again is not hard but much slower. Those of you that have done it will know all too well about that dreaded itch, or little ache about 1 inch into the weld. You don't wanna stop but the end is so far away and your mind isn't on the weld . Yep we've all been there and this is why I find the Alu easier. As it tends to go at more my pace.

 

[Turbo]

From experience of working & welding under cars a simple way of supporting your head is to take a soft plastic 5l container, half fill it with water, put a dent in the side of it & fit the cap. The back of your head fits in the dent & the water stops it sliding away.

 

[mikejack]

From experience of working & welding under cars a simple way of supporting your head is to take a soft plastic 5l container, half fill it with water, put a dent in the side of it & fit the cap. The back of your head fits in the dent & the water stops it sliding away.

and bloody handy if things start to go wrong !!!

 

[norlander]

From experience of working & welding under cars a simple way of supporting your head is to take a soft plastic 5l container, half fill it with water, put a dent in the side of it & fit the cap. The back of your head fits in the dent & the water stops it sliding away.

Probably good for supporting arm/wrist /knee as well?, filling with warm water -niice. You just gave me an idea for use of rubber hot water bottles.

Well explained by the way- I would have gone off, removed my cap, put a dent in my head and replaced my cap, but your instructions were spot on.

 

[Ho55]

Thankyou for all of your replies, most encouraging.
If i can hijack my own thread...
I'm looking at an R-Tech AC/DC 170A Digital. What torches should i get. I see lots of complaints about the WP26.
I will be doing Ali up to about 3/4mm, Steel up to about 5, some stainless. Mostly on a vehicle or parts for it.
In fact to give the full story, making a rear camper body like this:

 

[Richard.]

will be doing Ali up to about 3/4mm,

This is the biggest issue you have regarding your torches.
4mm cold aluminium will generally require 120-150 amps of power to get it going.
On dc this would be wp17 territory but on ac where a % of that current is at the electrode its starting to push it for wp17's unless you pay through the nose for one specced at 150 amps ac
If your line of work is going to be a lot of this type of thing (thick gaged material and decent current levels, long runs) I would then suggest you seriously consider water cooling.
By doing this you will no longer need to worry about torch size vs current because most wp20 type torches will easily cope at 100% duty over 200 amps.

 

[norlander]

I've got a 200 Amp AC set aircooled, I got a CK torch which can handle 200amps but is pedal operated- its not hugely bigger than a 9. I don't have a problem with the heat as I keep the runs short. Best boys to talk to on torches might be langy and chevy 2 as they do off bench auto body stuff.
There is another torch favoured by the pros but I forget the name-its yellow I think, Jim Davey would know. You can get torches with a flexible neck and other models have a locking swivel head.
They are expensive, so its best to get it right by handling them first
On the 26, its me that whinges on about them as I have tarts size hands and my wrists had multiple fractures and are "welded". Plus I am a moaning owd git. I've been practising with 26 this week and got more comfortable with it.
Getting a w/c set might save you a lot of expense and grief-I have no experience with them though and most of my ali stuff is 1-2mm with occasional 5mm.
If going for R Tech you can spread the payments to ease the pain?

 

[Ho55]

I can add water cooling to the R-Tech order for 299 GBP, its pushing my budget but can do if recommended.
They spec a WP18 (250A AC) or WP20 (175A AC) any comments on which?

 

[Richard.]

Wp20 all the way.
Water cooling is lovely and if your pushing things over 100 amps on AC for long periods it's worth its weight in gold.
I simply wouldn't be without it.
Torch size as discussed can come right down.
Current capacity of the torch is much higher(usually double) size for size
Consumable parts like collets, lenses, cups, O rings last waaaaaaaay longer and good quality ones are almost not consumable.
Hot hands are a thing of the past, gas cooled torches when used at the top end become hot even the handles get to the point where it's hot to hold.
Gas coverage is always more efficient if the cups and lenses are not glowing for the life of them. Other then layout and another box to home there are only advantages to water cooled tig welding.

 

[norlander]

You could spend 299 squids easily and more searching for the ideal air cooled torch set up. And, its usual for aftermarket torches tocome with bare wires and different gas connections- so more hassle. 300 squids to go water cooled with WP20 is a no brainer I'd say.

Only thing I would point out is that in my book, anyone who rides a watercooled motorbike or uses water cooled torches is a big jessie

 

[Richard.]

Only thing I would point out is that in my book, anyone who rides a watercooled motorbike or uses water cooled torches is a big jessie

Oi!!!!!!!!
I frequently do both and very happy been a Jessie thanks.

 

[norlander]

Oi!!!!!!!!
I frequently do both and very happy been a Jessie thanks.

I knew that

 

[Richard.]

Watchit frenchy.