lorch or fronius???

[davide]

hi all
i have a company and i'm thinking about buying a new mig welder

i have about 7 welding machine but i had tryed the new inverter tipe with speed arc and the difference in power consuming and time for welding is huge for me couse someday i spent all work day welding iron

but i have 2 offer 1 about lorch and 1 about fronius

lorch they want abount 4500€ for a 400A and fronius same machine more thand 8000€

fronius have a model without welding pulse worth 6500€


i dont know what to do... the difference in price is very huge but i like more buy a fronius couse i had alweys work with the people that could sell me


opinion about?

 

[Richard.]

Hi,
I'm a hugggggge fan of fronius equipment but I'm a bigger fan of money. The meer fact that the fronius is double the price of the lorch would send me toward the lorch. I prefer fronius over lorch but not £3500 much.

 

[premmington]

If money was not object I would fill all my workshops with Fronius welding sets!

Of late I have been buying Kemppi welding equipment. And been very pleased with my purchases.

 

[Richard.]

^^^^^ that's what I wanted to say. Fronius all the way. (Should I win the lottery).

 

[matt1978]

It depends on what you want from the machines. I work for LORCH, have done for 10 years, but I previously used to work for The UK Fronius importer and then one of their main distributors prior to that so I have intimate knowledge of both ranges.

Without doubt Fronius are a excellent brand with a suburb heritage. However it's not always strictly true that just because it has a Fronius name on the side then something else will be a compromise. When you start talking about this level of investment and comparisons between these sort of brands (and I include EWM in this as they are also another top quality brand and range) you need to look at a case by case and machine by machine case. For example one brand may have an excellent model of Tig which would score 10/10 where as the competition equivalent maybe a 8/10 or 9/10, but the other brand may have a superior Mig and the other brands migs maybe not quite as good. Some brands such as Fronius have completely unique niches such as CMT and Laser Hybrid which are truely excellent processes with pretty much zero competition. However in saying that, I would personally put the LORCH range of Micormigs and Saprom range with the SpeedProcesses against anything on the market. Without question. The MicorMig is still the newest range of machines on the market today and uses the very latest specification components. It is to date, the only welding machine anywhere in the world to incorporate NFC technology and considering it is a mid level machine regarding its pricing points, it regularly out performs everything within its class and also mostly the next tier above, such is the quality of the arc reaction times, ignition etc etc.

I would imagine that the non Pulse Fronius machine you refer too, would be the TransSteel and the Pulse version would maybe be the TPSi? To be fair the TPSi is the very latest offering from Fronius and has a completely graphical touch screen display, from that point of view it is at the moment unique, the touch screen is a god send for some but a nightmare for others but you really need to compare the arc characteristics.

I don't know where your located so maybe best to look at local support etc but which ever machine you buy I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

[Richard.]

I can only comment on tig machines.
I've used the lorch 220T and handy tig 200
I've used the fronius magicwave 2000 / 2200 and transtig 2200.
All excellent machines but the froney is a cut above. I'm not really into bells and whistles and on DC there was nothing in it but AC the fronius is a leap ahead the best of them. The arc is a quiet hum and as sharp as a razor. The stability is bang on. My mls is also lovely on AC and as good as the lorch range I'm sure but not as good as fronius. Even my 15 year old magic wave 2000 beat the kemppi on arc stability.

 

[matt1978]

Hi Richard, it's definitely true that the Tig offerings from Fronius are top top machines. On the earlier range they had Fuzzy Logic and the later range, Active Wave, both of which are patented and so makes it virtually inpossible for the competition to create the same feeling and performance on the AC Arc. But in saying that Miller has a patented niche on some of its AC range where as you can have complete independence on the current selection for both the +\- cycle as well a a choice of wave form in each half of the cycle. This means that (if you want) you can weld at 250-300 amps plus with a very small torch and only a 2.4mm dia tungsten. You cannot do this on any other piece of kit including Fronius. But do you want or need too? It all comes back to what I said in reference to what you actually want or need from a machine at that point in time. If hyperthetically you were a guy who constantly changed from the work shop to very demanding site work, you could make a strong case for the T 300 over the MagicWave 300 if only for the reason that the T300 is the worlds smallest 300 amp acdc Tig on the market weighing around 16kg so you could argue it's far more portable and also as far as I know the T range are the only ACDC Tig range to be guaranteed drop proof from 60cm so you could argue it's more robust. But it depends if these qualities are important to you as an individual in relationship from what you need at that particular time. But just to be totally clear the arc conditions on AC from the MagicWave are simply one of the best available anywhere in the world. But as I said just because that is a fact doesn't mean that every single machine across the 3 main disciplines built by Fronius are better than every single equivalent machines from across the rest of the competition because that is simply not the case and is not true. That was my point. When comparing the top of the line, premium manufacturers, Every manufacturer has little niches that you could argue are better than the competition. But just because of these niches doesn't mean that they are better or the best at everything in general. What you will be sure of is every machine in general is going to be atleast 7-8-9 out of 10, but it's the particular niches on each model that will be the difference to someone which would make it a 10/10.Which is why I said judge everything on a case by case, requirement by requirement scenario. You also have to look at things like total cost of ownership, warranty etc. Finally it's certainly also true that in any walk of life and with any products, definitely so with welding machines, that if one brand truely was head and shoulders above everything else available on all 3 major welding disciplines then they would simply clean up. There wouldn't be room for any other manufacturer and certainly wouldn't be any room for companies like EWM and LORCH to sell at the premium end prices they sell at and still continually increase their market share year on year.

 

[Richard.]

I was very impressed with the handy tig Matt I must say. Considering a lot of the conditions are fixed I didn't feel restricted when changing from joint to joint. Again that's down to how well it delivered the arc. Nice and focused even in the corners. I'm yet to try a new Ewm but the old tritons were pretty awesome. I agree totally with your statement above each one will have there thing.

 

[matt1978]

Hi Rich,

In not sure if BB is aware, but you can adjust everything regarding AC Balance and AC Frequency in the background menu, nothing is fixed on that machine.

 

[Richard.]

REALLY!!!!!!!!!!
That boy needs to read the manual. I was helping him out with a bit of Tig practice on his new lump and I thought this thing is great. We never changed balance / freq as we didn't know how. But it was very usable where it was set. I assume factory settings if he's not changed it.

 

[Richard.]

Can you change dc pulse settings too.

 

[matt1978]

Yes pulse frequency has a range from 0.1-2Khz

AC balance from 30-200Hz

 

[Richard.]

You mean ac frequency.
That's a good scope.

 

[matt1978]

Yes sorry I meant AC Freq.

Factory settings would be 50Hz for ACF, 35%+ AC Balance

Pulse would be 2Hz with the Background current 50% of the main welding current and the pulse duty cycle also 50%. But as I said, all of this is completely adjustable.

 

[Richard.]

That's great. I'll bear that in mind Matt cheers. BB1 needs to read that manual as that is worth knowing.

 

[matt1978]

I am conscious that we have already hijacked this thread a little bit, I have created a new thread in the Lorch section to explain to @Badger1bear how to access and change everything he may wish to change on his machine.

 

[Richard.]

I am conscious that we have already hijacked this thread a little bit, I have created a new thread in the Lorch section to explain to @brokenbiker how to access and change everything he may wish to change on his machine.

Badgerbear. You mean.

 

[matt1978]

Yes.

 

[Richard.]

Yes.

Happens to us all mate.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Was just about to ask why I have been tagged in this one? But then realised you meant badger instead lol.