Baxi Combi 80HE--HELP

[ford34/2]

Baxi Combi 80 HE Plus, Daughter rang this morning asking how to fill up the boiler as the red light was on and it had no pressure, talked her through top up, in a panic says theres water gushing out and the carpet looked to be already wet, I called in ASAP -took the outer cover off and this is what I found. Now fortunatly for her she is on a Baxi contract for service and maintenance and they will be out Friday between 08.00 and 10.00.
It was installed 09/2007.
last service 04/2015
is it fixable???? and what caused it????, she put the central heating on last night to dry some clothes-just back off holiday.This morning,no hot water and the red light warning. Last night was first time heating has been on since Spring.Baxi beefed a while back regarding replacing the heat exchanger and said some part or other was obselete and if it went the Boiler would be scrap, What a 7 Yr old system??
Red, square/oblong Pressure Vessel, got 5108975 and a load of Italien writing on it.

Any good info in case the service engineer trys one on?

Thanks
Stan

 

[I'm getting on a bit]

It looks difficult to see from that picture but looks like the expansion vessel.

The pressure relief should have saved it

 

[ford34/2]

Its definatly the pressure Vessel, (Thats whats written on it.) might well be part No 240388 now

I`m guessing some sort of safety valve should have maybe kicked in??

There`s a copper expansion pipe comes off the system from the middle right hand side, on the bottom - the pipe is clear, and the condensate drain on the back left- it too is clear

some canny pressure as its quite thick metal and my hands wouldnt twist it back.

It was power flushed and Fernox included last year, but the lads who did it said it was clean and had already had an inhibitor in.

Stan

 

[the snooper]

I would guess the safety valve failed but what has caused it to over pressure in the first place

 

[colnerov]

Hi, that looks like a possible manufacturing fault, I would say there are a number of other components that would have let go before that. The safety valve has only 'one job' and it has not only let you down, it has let itself down.

Colin

 

[ford34/2]

Mind if I stick this up on a few other places? Like to see what responses I get from a few plumbers

you most certainly can, I`m hoping Baxi /Heat Team will sort it, but as there are likely to be several parts involved and then the taking to pieces of the boiler to replace them, may make this a "breakable" uneconomic repair.. Which is what was indicated last time they did heat exchanger. they indicated "If this breaks generally when I take it to pieces this will break and this will generally break and the parts are obselete".

Thankyou

Stan

 

[colnerov]

Hi, This service and maintenance plan is well worth having isn't it? If they don't make the parts available you can't get it repaired and you have to buy a new one. this is only good for one party of the contract.

Colin

 

[roofman]

7 year life on a boiler...Blame that prescot fella from the labour govement as he made us all change to condensing boilers in the name of saving the planet and not a single shred of evidence to back it up

 

[Kayos]

7 year life on a boiler...Blame that prescot fella from the labour govement as he made us all change to condensing boilers in the name of saving the planet and not a single shred of evidence to back it up

It was Blair that actually signed tho, only good thing to come out of it was no more back boilers.

I'd say it's a faulty vessel, so many more parts would fail first, the diaphragm has probably had a small split, letting the water sit on the "dry" side and causing it to rust.

If it was a power flush and not a magnetic one then that won't have helped, they tend to find the weak points

 

[colnerov]

I'd say it's a faulty vessel, so many more parts would fail first,

That's what I thought too, it looks like it has pulled out the crimp round the edge because there's not enough metal under the crimp judging by the unpainted lip.

 

[500e]

An unconscionable contract is one that is so one-sided that it is unfair to one party and therefore unenforceable under law. It is a type of contract that leaves one party with no real, meaningful choice, usually due to major differences in bargaining power between the parties.

 

[sg66]

Never seen an expansion tank do that before, even with a faulty diaphragm when they rust they usually just leak, the exit of the prv which opens at 3bar should be on the other side of the wall with an open end, its not been blanked off has it ? that gas pipe should have fully wrap over pipe clips on it so it cant get dislodged by accident.

 

[the snooper]

I'd say it's a faulty vessel, so many more parts would fail first, the diaphragm has probably had a small split, letting the water sit on the "dry" side and causing it to rust.

my experience of a faulty vessel is that if the diaphragm leaks and fills the outer steel vessel the pressure in the system drops due to the initial internal leak so people top up the system but upon the system reaching temperature there is no where for the water to expand so it is pushed out through the pressure relief valve, so the op's daughter should have noticed continual low pressure in the system and constant pressure drops if they topped it up on a regular basis

 

[ford34/2]

Havenet had any pressure drops, system is very well behaved in that respect, as I said she put the central heating on in the Evening to dry washing on the radiators, had a bath went to bed, Heating would switch off on the 6 programme digistat controller. woke up no hot water available, checked boiler thinking it may have tripped, -- no pressure in gauge, carpet wet, tried a top up, soaked the carpet even more ( so did I when I went down)
Update this morning when the Heateam arrive. fingers crossed for her.
I`m sure the PRV is on the right under the pressure vessel and is plumbed into the washing machine drain with 15mm copper, the condensing drain comes off from the left back and it too goes into the washing machine drain, a 40mm stand pipe connected from a 40mm tee
Stan

 

[ford34/2]

The saga continues and todays news was not good, CONDEMNED, I was not present.

The engineer that came checked it over, using the steps I left for him,went off to the van for a pressure vessel, then completly removed the old one, undoing the retaining bolt and the union at the top, after a while he says hes noticed the pipe with the female union that screws on to the top of the vessel is damaged and pipe split and this failure is what caused the pressure vessel to burst.
Now alarm bells ring.
Why would you go to the van for a new part??
why would you take out the old one knowing the pipe is split.???
I tried the old vessel back into the bottom location slot and the vertical housing at the back-no problem, however the union that connects the CH at the top, the pipe is bent down where the fracture is and it wont line up with the Vessels male threaded bit to reattach, now if it did burst how on earth did it bend itself down over??
If this pipe did burst would it have released pressure in the system thus avoiding the vessel bursting??

Now for my ignorance--would the water in the CH radiator system escape from this pipe fracture --- even a few drips at a time?? the system has fernox installed from 20/10/2014- it had an inhibitor present prior to this. And fenox stinks a bit.

I did a very comprehensive check on wednesday and there were definatly no visable leaks - I couldnt have missed that. I had a vent off the upstairs rad and it did seem full of water almost to the top of the rad.I only used a very thin screwdiver to poke down as a dip stick.

anyway-- Now waiting for Legal and General to make contact to see what the future holds ----if anything??

any more thoughts or ideas please?? Oh and the rubber ballon bag in the vessel is not punctured, had it blown up about dinnertime to over 1 bar with a bike styrip pump and the inside of the red metal vessel does not look too rusty at all inside -very difficult to get a pic. but heres a few for a Friday night. I have plenty more but limit here is 10


Stan

 

[the snooper]

if you removed a vent from a radiator you should have had water pouring out

 

[sg66]

If its plumbed into the washing machine drain then your not going to see any discharge from it, it really should be outside, the prv is capable of releasing very hot water and or steam.

Have they been out to look at it yet ? (ignore, you posted same time )

 

[sg66]

Temperature sensors don't work well without water, if its boiled dry then got a lump of water it may have had a sudden surge of steam the prv has not been able to cope with, right at the top there is an automatic air vent, is the little black cap loose or tight, its supposed to vent air to prevent airlocks, if its not loose it cant ?

 

[ford34/2]

theres zero pressure in the system, been none since possibly Tueday eve, any attempt to refill/replenish, water gushes out from the ruptured Expansion vessel.

So lack of system pressure--is that why the rad vent didnt squirt when opened to "bleed"-- I was only curious if there was any water left in the upstairs system-- there was insufficient on the floor to have emptied all the rads, but todays enginner isolated all the valves underneath the boiler?-Gas, cold feed water in, CH in, CH out, HW. all turned off, electric left off- I turned it off on Wed am. If he did damage the vessel pipe maybe he had to turn CH flow/return off to stop it escaping?-- I dont know

Stan

 

[ford34/2]

If its plumbed into the washing machine drain then your not going to see any discharge from it, it really should be outside, the prv is capable of releasing very hot water and or steam.

excellent information - thankyou, maybe it was legal then,exploring the options for repair / replace, I will make sure the disscharge is diverted to a "horse shoe" with elbows on the ouside of the wall, the existing PRV pipework is copper so easy to extend, + Gas pipe needs proper clips, not them plastic snap in ones.

all good info
Thankyou

Stan