Hawker Hunter down

[ronan]

Just seen there has been another crash as two planes collided at an air show in switzerland, getting dangerous to attend these shows.

 

[ms08]

I went to Farnborough twice but as you get older mortality kicks in and though I did attend Manston last year where a Hunter displayed I am definitely more cautious of possible accidents.

 

[Wedg1e]

Watching the rear-view footage, it looks to me as though he gets to the bottom of the loop and then the plane does a little bump... I wonder if he'd got the angle of attack wrong and was on the point of a stall so pushed the nose down to try and get the air flowing again but was too low for it to have any effect... it doesn't dive into the deck, more like a pancake.

 

[the snooper]

Watching the rear-view footage, it looks to me as though he gets to the bottom of the loop and then the plane does a little bump... I wonder if he'd got the angle of attack wrong and was on the point of a stall so pushed the nose down to try and get the air flowing again but was too low for it to have any effect... it doesn't dive into the deck, more like a pancake.

according to what ive just read they seem to think the plane could have stalled and he momentarily regained control steering the nose upwards resulting in him being thrown from the plane

 

[Wallace]

Awful crash. Last airshow where spectators lost lives was Farnborough 1952.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Re the flap position: It is quite normal to manoeuver with them partly down in Hunters.
Apparently, more people go to airshows than watch footy at stadiums and as above, it is very rare in UK for people to be hurt, other than the pilot. This was not a normal loop and it appears something went wrong on the way up, causing the a/c to change direction out of the display box.
The maintance is very strict, as are the rules about displays. The AIB report will tell us more and hopefully, the pilot.
KF

 

[colnerov]

I was told:-

Flaps are not hinged. They cant be move up or down. When deployed they increase surface area of the wing thus increasing the lift. They are deflected down to increase the effective curvature of the wing.
You are perhaps thinking of the elevators which ARE hinged and which move up when the stick is drawn back and down when the stick is pushed forward.
Looking at the attitude of the aircraft they would have been pretty useless as there was little forward speed compared to vertical speed so the airflow over the top is unlikely to have provided enough lift to make any difference.


Tragic event!

Hi, I was also told this a while ago, as well as giving more lift they also give more drag. This is sometimes why they are used as air brakes when an aircraft is landing.

Colin

 

[KemppiFrog]

Flaps come in different types. The Hunter ones are hinged and the lower surface of the wing seperates from the top, increasing drag and providing some lift to help manoeuvrability at lower speeds. But they can be used up to mach 0.9.
Other types, as you see on airliners, are sliding back and down, often in layers, to change the shape of the wing for low speed as in take off and landing. You need completely different wings sections to work at the low speeds, then clean the shape up for cruising.

 

[Rocketman]

I think the particular problem with this tragic accident is that many people died with nothing to do with the air show just going by their regular business driving along a road. If you are spectator you accept there is a tiny risk, if you are the pilot you accept there are risks but the people driving on the road may not of even known the air show was going on.

So I can see this one having a big impact for the future as a result.

 

[TechnicAl]

I see the Nanny State has stepped in and announced there will be significant rules changes for the aircraft displays at these shows

 

[Screech]

Shoreham is by the sea and I would imagine that most flying does take place over the sea. Trouble is the aircraft have to pass over land on take off and landing.

Unfortunately that isn't the case. The airport is a stones throw away from the sea, but the air displays take place over the airfield itself, and in this case, it was directly over the A27 and fields behind it.
He came out of the loop just behind the road in line with the river, where we were watching it. (although it can be deceiving where exactly things above you are actually located)

I believe eastbourne airshow is all above the sea, as i was under the impression that air displays must not be performed above people.

If shoreham airshow is to continue, I think it should be moved to worthing seafront.


You may notice this is only my 2nd post on the forum. I actually just come on here to start getting welding advice but saw this in the recent posts list. I didn't just sign up to post to this.

Cheers.

 

[rikrobson]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_accidents_and_incidents

This list is surprisingly large
and not the first time for Shoreham
September 15 – Shoreham Airshow (West Sussex, England) – Pilot Brian Brown was killed when the Hawker Hurricane he was flying failed to pull out of a dive during a mock dogfight.[62]

 

[roofman]

My Friend spoke to me today,his son is an RAF tech on front line fighters.Theres word amoungst those circles is that the Hunter suffered a "flame out"...to those who dont know it means basicly the engine got starved of air and combustion ceased.I do believe this can happen going over the top of a loop as air speed going through the blades almost stops....Speculation so early i dont know but thats the inside word apparantly

 

[rikrobson]

My Friend spoke to me today,his son is an RAF tech on front line fighters.Theres word amoungst those circles is that the Hunter suffered a "flame out"...to those who dont know it means basicly the engine got starved of air and combustion ceased.I do believe this can happen going over the top of a loop as air speed going through the blades almost stops....Speculation so early i dont know but thats the inside word apparantly

If that is the case then a low level Loop would just have been an accident waiting to happen

 

[the snooper]

Shoreham Air Show crash: vintage jets banned from stunt flying
Civil Aviation Authority steps in to impose restrictions on all older jet aircraft as it carries out urgent review of arrangements for Bank Holiday weekend air displays

 

[mike os]

well thats going to be a lot of fun then....

 

[brightspark]

verry true but when the .s..hit hits s the fan and nothings done about it and it happens again who wants the responsibility and carries the can if its not fully investigated

 

[mike os]

the truth is they are safer than being in your own home, or driving a car or riding a bike or going out for a beer with your mates....or going to work, ...... more people died at chess tournaments last year than at airshows in the UK

 

[TechnicAl]

the truth is they are safer than being in your own home, or driving a car or riding a bike or going out for a beer with your mates....or going to work, ...... more people died at chess tournaments last year than at airshows in the UK

I think some of those on the A27 might disagree

 

[Tinbasherdan]

I think some of those on the A27 might disagree

Everything has Inherent risk, ive pulled corpses from the sea but I still go swimming