Welding a fuel tank (safely)

[Archie]

At the end of the day, what's the worst that can happen?

Oh yeah, I remember....

 

[Sam]

Chill out dude!

All I am trying to get over is why do something twice do it properly first time. I would not try to give someone advice that would cause danger to themself as stated I have used this method for the past 15yrs probably in the region of 30 pluss tanks,go on someone say it there is always a first time.You can go out for a pint of milk and come back dead.I would only use epoxy as a temporary fix and get it sorted properly as soon as. The pressure of a full tank in the hot sun (Australia)weld versus epoxy which will hold out?

 

[Finalreminder]

Chill out dude!

All I am trying to get over is why do something twice do it properly first time. I would not try to give someone advice that would cause danger to themself as stated I have used this method for the past 15yrs probably in the region of 30 pluss tanks,go on someone say it there is always a first time.You can go out for a pint of milk and come back dead.I would only use epoxy as a temporary fix and get it sorted properly as soon as. The pressure of a full tank in the hot sun (Australia)weld versus epoxy which will hold out?

Personally I'd weld it Sam, there's no substitute...aside from a new tank of course.
I'm merely suggesting the next best alternative as I see it.

 

[shenion]

I'd put an air hose in the tank, open up so thee is a small flow and leave for hours, possibly overnight.

If hole is near bottom, invert tank so the cap is the lowest point. Remove the petcock and cap so there is no onstriction for air to come in the top and fumes to come out bottom (cant do that on cars ) Then weld away.

You might want to have the tank inside coated with rust inhibiter. The weld may rust worse than the metal.

Bike tanks are different, cars have no hole in the bottom, so you cant have it open to drain any fumes. Bike tanks have the filler cap on top and often 2 big holes in the bottom for the petcock and level sensor. They are much safer to do as there far less chance of fumes building up.

A buddy of mine has done a few with harly any prep other than removing all 2 openings, and leaving set for a few days.

It is probably an older tank. Probably can't buy new. I did find one fro my GPz. Kawi stopped making them about 12 years ago. Found one on ebay for $40. Gotta love idiots who post things in the wrong category sometimes Beat up tanks go for up to $150, NIB close to $400.

 

[runnach]

I assume no one read the HSE cut and paste I put up at the weekend? Oche well...........boom boom!!

Joking apart, good on you Sam for making good around 30 repairs and still stay in one piece. However, and my thoughts only, yer a long time dead trying to make good a piece of metal that has held fuel, tanks aint cheap, neither is my life and limbs, I have been welding for too many years now, times when I have done repairs to tanks drums or vessels, proper certificates were in place to indicate proper cleaning had taken place and, if (god forbid) one did go boom, then my family would sue with ease, I'd be a spectator via cams fitted to daisy's

 

[Welderpaul]

The Egg never said epoxy was better Sam, just that it wouldn't dissolve. Chill out dude!

BTW, I re-iterate, CO is still potentially explosive with a bit of the right "other" gases about. Not being able to smell petrol doesn't mean you don't have an explosive atmosphere.

Have to say, like you, i'd just get on and weld it meself. A bit of inflammable wotsit never put me off. But I'd be shy of telling other people to do it, without being aware of the possibilities.

It's all getting a bit welding web/ukw innit!

 

[snowcat]

It's all getting a bit welding web/ukw innit!

Nahhhh No stoving or underwater stuff yet.......BTW Id side with runnach never welded a fuel tank, never intend too..

 

[weldequip]

Are we talking a priceless vintage bike here? just buy a new fecking tank & have done with it!
weldequip

 

[runnach]

Snowie, I had a go at stoving last week, a defo knack required for this gig! Obviously haven't mentioned before about the time a few years ago I did a commercial acquaint diver course (one Feb weekend) u/w welding/burning/fitting pipework ect............bloody freezing cold and dark flooded dry dock.

There ya go stoving and u/w stuff..........happy bubbles hehehe

 

[shenion]

Are we talking a priceless vintage bike here? just buy a new fecking tank & have done with it!
weldequip

I guess you haven't priced motorcycle tanks. I have seen new bikes totalled by insurance companies just because of a dented tank and fairing.

The markup on most bike parts would make most car dealers green with envy

3 of my bikes are more than 20 years old, tanks are no longer available. They are not like cars with the same parts used for many years. They change almost every year and are usually only made for a few years. Once the dealer stock is gone, that's it.

 

[weldequip]

Hmmmm.... looks like I'll have to sack welders & get into motorbike spares
So what's a 'typical' bike tank cost then?
weldequip

 

[aametalmaster]

I just welded 2 vintage Honda tanks full of pin holes around the bottom seam weld. I have the proper metering tool to check for LEL and explosive mixtures as well as years of oil refinery welding and preparing the parts to weld so i don't have to worry about blowing them up. Without an LEL meter i wouldn't touch them at all...Bob

 

[shenion]

Hmmmm.... looks like I'll have to sack welders & get into motorbike spares

Wouldn't we all like to sell things at 100% markup where most people do not bicker on the price.

So what's a 'typical' bike tank cost then?
weldequip

I bought a tank in '84 for my GPz550. Was $250 back then. Bike parts have exceeded inflation for a long time. Have heard modern bike takes go for $800 and up.

Last I checked, the bare front fork tubes are $298 each (that was the last price in 1999 when they stopped making them.) A lot of money for a chromed metal pipe with threads on one end (although high-strength steel.) I can have a guy in Texas make me pair of tubes and chrome plate them for $200 a pair.

Bought a side fairing for my '01 ZX6R. Just a 2' triangle of ABS plastic. Dealer wanted $460.

Starter solenoid: $98. This is identical to a riding lawn mower solenoid with a different connector and bracket you can pick up for $15.

I restored an '86 ZX600A. It was missing lots of brackets. Needed a seat bracket. Dealer price was $37 for u-shaped piece of metal. No one had them in the state. Junkyards want $50 and up for the same 6" stamped metal plate.

Ebay has been the answer. The $460 ZX6R side fairing, new in the box, $325 shipped. Was a great deal as my model has a rare graphics package. Those small-town dealers have realized they can't make much money on bikes. So, they mark up parts 30-50% instead of normal dealer 100% and put them on ebay.

Ebay has been great for NOS parts. Dealers get rid of old inventory or close shop and the parts go on ebay cheap. Got rings and gaskets for the ZX600A that way. New head gasket from dealer is $48. Picked up a NOS one off ebay for $20.

I did see a NOS tank for my '83 GPZ go for $351. Was a good deal but I had found a used one for $48. Luckily, 5 used tanks all appeared in one week, first four went for around $200. Mine ended last and by that time the high bidders were gone.

The '82 GPz I am restoring has the last registration sticker of 1989. Tank was probably half full of gas. Empty when I got is as the gas ah eaten through the petcock. Never could get gas cap off. Sounded like it was full of sand. Must have had a lot of rust. Did not even attempt to restore it.

Heh, the carbs had no moving parts even after 3 days in parts cleaner. I have never seen brass jets blossom like a flower due to corrosion. Again, 4 sets of carbs in one week on ebay, good deal on last.

Oh, the dealer price on the '82 carbs is $197 each and there are 4 of them. A set of carbs for my '01 is near $1100.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

this could explain why there are lots of motorbike going through the salvage auctions with apparently little damage. Sounds like I need to check out specific models and prices of parts.

The great thing about motorbikes compared with cars is I could keep half a dozen at home and still have room to move around!

Regards
Peter

 

[English Steve]

The great thing about motorbikes compared with cars is I could keep half a dozen at home and still have room to move around!

Trouble with bikes is they're addictive - you can't just stop at one or two or even half a dozen. I always intend to sell one to fund the next, but somehow never quite get around to it.
I currently have three in my garage, two in a neighbours shed, one in a neighbours garage (along with my tractor) and five in my fathers garage, and I really fancy a traillie for running to and from work ...

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

don't get me started...

I suggested to Bobbie (the wife) a year or two back that I'd like to get a bike again but she stamped her foot...

so I bought a hovercraft... :-)

But this is purely a money-making opportunity. I could soon knock up a motocycle trailer and the auction site is only 20 miles from home. The auction is on-line so I can attend that from work...and on every 'other' week when I'm starting work at 10.00am I'd have time to pop over and pick up a bike first.

I've fancied doing this with cars for years but the problems there are well known...big trailer to store, big vehicle needed to pull it, difficult to keep more than one spare car at home. Plus there's not enough profit in breaking cars so it'd have to be a repair and sell....

but motorbikes are a different animal!

Regards
Peter

 

[GeorgeB]

That's about as dangerous as you can get George, as if the fuel vapour to air mix is just right, you'll get an explosion. That's really chancing it mate. One way or another, the tank MUST be purged.

My thinking is that all the fuel vapour will evaporate and exit the tank, so there will be zero chance of a fuel-air mix which could cause an explosion. But I'm not sure and you could be right. If I couldn't smell any petrol after leaving the tank in the sun for a few hours, I'd assume all the petrol had gone.

 

[aametalmaster]

I'd assume all the petrol had gone.

Would you rather Assume or do it right and use a meter. You might only get one chance...Bob

 

[fingers99]

Bob, what are these LEL meters, please?

 

[aametalmaster]

This is one similar to what we use in the refinery. They are the only way to be sure...Bob
http://www.rkiinstruments.com/pages/gx2003.htm