Chop saw / dry saw

[Pietzeekoe]

Hello guys,

I recently bought my first welder and I've been busy welding all kind of things. A few days ago I made a steel pedestal out of some 1 inch square tubing. I had to mitre some of the corners to make it look neat. I however, only have a hacksaw and an angle grinder for metal cutting purposes and I'm not very accurate with the angle grinder. I did all the corners with a mitre box and a hacksaw and it suuucked. I bought a new blade for it, but I still spend more time sawing then welding. I see myself doing more of these projects in the future and using a hacksaw isn't an option. So I went looking for a chop saw. Abrasive saws make a mess and apparently have a tendency to wonder. Dry cut (cold cut) saws seem really nice but a dewalt makita etc. will run upwards of £400 which is a bit rich for my blood. Then I found the Evolution saws, they seem nice but have a bit of a gimmicky vibe about them. I have handled a sliding mitre saw from their Fury series in the shop and it seems ok, but maybe not the most rigid saw in the world (I could push the blade off center quite easily). If I'm gonna go with the sliding mitre saw I'm probably gonna go with the Evolution rage 3 with the 210mm blade. I also saw (no pun intended) they have saws that are more metal cutting oriented (rage 2 and evo 355), though it seems like they use the same type of blade. These saws have a lot less hinging/ sliding parts between the saw and the base which probably is condusive to a more rigid saw and a more precise cut. For some reason however, these saws are a whole lot more expensive.

Long story short. I want a metal cutting saw and I can get the Evolution rage 3 with the 210mm blade for about €180 (≈£130) and the Evolution evo355 for about €300(≈£216). Which one will suit me better?

I'm primairily gonna use the saw for steel, but the wider cut capacity and bevel feature of the Rage 3 seem really nice for the odd wood job. I also have a cheap supply for 1/8 inch steel plate which comes in a 200mm wide strip which the sliding mitre saw can cut but the chop saw can't.

Any advice on these saws or another saw that will fit the bill is much
appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Cyberprog]

I have the Rage 3 and it's great - but it is very noisy, as would a abrasive chop saw. Also throws swarf all over the shop. I use mine for wood, plastics and the odd bit of metal, and I bought the optional stand also which I'd highly recommend if you will use it in different places.

 

[Johnnypf]

I have the evolution stealth 210mm (rage3-s but all black) and while it will cut thin steel I wouldnt want to try it (but then i use it mainly for wood with a 60 tooth blade), I also have the rage2 cut off saw and while its good enough for what I do I do wish I had spent a bit more and got the raptor (evo355).
At work we have the Dewalt, the base is still a pressed steel job but the clamp and base are much sturdier than the rage2 (which is why i wish id gone for the raptor).

 

[kelvinjouhar]

I have the Evolution Rage 4, and it is fine for material up to 45mm.... I am planning to build a new welding table and I was going to use 50mm box.... but I can't so I am now wishing I had bought a slightly bigger saw..... So maybe I will use 40mm box.

 

[Mr shiney]

I have the Rage 3S mitre and am very pleased with it. It cuts way above its weight. Noisy and loads of chips but a nice clean cut and good enough for welding.

 

[kelvinjouhar]

Problem with mine (and I will be interested in comments about other Rage models) is that you have to calibrate it in order for it to cut square......out of the box, it cuts a bit skew....

 

[Pietzeekoe]

Problem with mine (and I will be interested in comments about other Rage models) is that you have to calibrate it in order for it to cut square......out of the box, it cuts a bit skew....

Initial calibration is not an issue for me ( probably will do that no matter what saw I get) I just don't want to have to do it after every cut.

I also have the rage2 cut off saw and while its good enough for what I do

How good are the blades? Do they last of would you advice going for a different blade?

 

[wristpin]

Rage fine for rough cutting!
Wear a full face shield not just eye shields as it chucks shrapnel everywhere!

 

[Johnnypf]

Initial calibration is not an issue for me ( probably will do that no matter what saw I get) I just don't want to have to do it after every cut.

How good are the blades? Do they last of would you advice going for a different blade?

I dont know about the lifespan of original blade (cuts are a bit rough though) as never used it more than a few times and then switched to the steel 66t blade that evolution do as I use them at work, twice the price but a much better cut.

 

[ukracer]

There used to be lot of OLD cold saws about but they are few and far between now. Save your money and get something like this it is worth it in the end. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Cir...951?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f351e5cdf

 

[hotrodder]

Then I found the Evolution saws, they seem nice but have a bit of a gimmicky vibe about them. I have handled a sliding mitre saw from their Fury series in the shop and it seems ok, but maybe not the most rigid saw in the world (I could push the blade off center quite easily). If I'm gonna go with the sliding mitre saw I'm probably gonna go with the Evolution rage 3 with the 210mm blade. I also saw (no pun intended) they have saws that are more metal cutting oriented (rage 2 and evo 355), though it seems like they use the same type of blade. These saws have a lot less hinging/ sliding parts between the saw and the base which probably is condusive to a more rigid saw and a more precise cut. For some reason however, these saws are a whole lot more expensive.

Long story short. I want a metal cutting saw and I can get the Evolution rage 3 with the 210mm blade for about €180 (≈£130) and the Evolution evo355 for about €300(≈£216). Which one will suit me better?

I'm primairily gonna use the saw for steel, but the wider cut capacity and bevel feature of the Rage 3 seem really nice for the odd wood job. I also have a cheap supply for 1/8 inch steel plate which comes in a 200mm wide strip which the sliding mitre saw can cut but the chop saw can't.

Any advice on these saws or another saw that will fit the bill is much
appreciated.

Thanks!

Evolutions fury and rage range are DIY/multipurpose things. Their Raptor/EVO/painted blue models are the proper metalworking kit, compare the specs of a rage2 355mm and a raptor/evo 355 and the differences (blade, motor spec etc) become clearer. Note neither Evolution (or anyone else AFAIK) do a sliding/compound mitre metal specific cutting saw. Part of the reason is probably because the very best way to kill a TCT metal cutting blade quickly is cut things the 'difficult' way.... cutting angle this way ( L ) is a lot harder on the blade than cutting it like /\ . Likewise flats like _ instead of l. This is also part of the reason why their official capacity for solids is far lower than the max dia of bar that'll fit into the machine
If you download the owners manual for an Evolution, Dewalt, Makita etc it should explain better including stuff on moving the fence forward/back for max cutting efficiency and blade life. Mitering has a similar effect in that the cut progresses downwards more quickly than it does along the flat face i.e. the blade is always progressing through the cut limiting the build up of heat instead of slowly munching through a flat section

FWIW my Dewalt doesn't throw chips at my face, it has an adjustable chip deflector and while it throws them around liberally most go out the back, some off to the right with few of them ending up in front of the saw. A pic of the evolution saws suggests they try and catch the chips instead of deflecting them and so a lot bounce back? While the mitre gauge is as useless on the Dewalt as it is on every other chop saw i've used mine cut squarely in the vertical plane out of the box and is still typically within 0.5mm years later. From what i've read i'd expect the Makita to be more solidly made, i ended up with a Dewalt as i got a very good deal and prefer the handle orientation (makes so much more sense)

Blades make a LOT of difference to noise and cut quality. The Dewalt blades have expansion slots in them and are quieter than cheaper blades with none. A lot of the noise is from the blade vibrating so quieter blades = better cut quality. The very best i've found (by a long, long way) are kanefusa blades which have a very elaborate pattern of expansion slots and are soooo much quieter compared to a solid TCT blade it's unreal. Unsurprisingly quieter/better blades are a chunk more spendy. Freud do a metal cutting blade called 'steel demon' which should be good and relatively quiet but i've never seen them for sale in the UK so shipping usually more than negates any savings

How much use is obviously a big factor along with price but personally i'd want a proper metal cutting saw for tube etc (cold cutting followed by dry cutting followed by bandsaw), flats that are too wide to be cut in it can be done with angle grinders/plasma cutter/jigsaws etc or with a circular saw like an EVO180, EVO230 (or it's Rage versions) if fast, straight cuts with next to no cleanup/deburring are important

 

[balmerchris]

Evolutions fury and rage range are DIY/multipurpose things. Their Raptor/EVO/painted blue models are the proper metalworking kit, compare the specs of a rage2 355mm and a raptor/evo 355 and the differences (blade, motor spec etc) become clearer. Note neither Evolution (or anyone else AFAIK) do a sliding/compound mitre metal specific cutting saw. Part of the reason is probably because the very best way to kill a TCT metal cutting blade quickly is cut things the 'difficult' way.... cutting angle this way ( L ) is a lot harder on the blade than cutting it like /\ . Likewise flats like _ instead of l. This is also part of the reason why their official capacity for solids is far lower than the max dia of bar that'll fit into the machine
If you download the owners manual for an Evolution, Dewalt, Makita etc it should explain better including stuff on moving the fence forward/back for max cutting efficiency and blade life. Mitering has a similar effect in that the cut progresses downwards more quickly than it does along the flat face i.e. the blade is always progressing through the cut limiting the build up of heat instead of slowly munching through a flat section

FWIW my Dewalt doesn't throw chips at my face, it has an adjustable chip deflector and while it throws them around liberally most go out the back, some off to the right with few of them ending up in front of the saw. A pic of the evolution saws suggests they try and catch the chips instead of deflecting them and so a lot bounce back? While the mitre gauge is as useless on the Dewalt as it is on every other chop saw i've used mine cut squarely in the vertical plane out of the box and is still typically within 0.5mm years later. From what i've read i'd expect the Makita to be more solidly made, i ended up with a Dewalt as i got a very good deal and prefer the handle orientation (makes so much more sense)

Blades make a LOT of difference to noise and cut quality. The Dewalt blades have expansion slots in them and are quieter than cheaper blades with none. A lot of the noise is from the blade vibrating so quieter blades = better cut quality. The very best i've found (by a long, long way) are kanefusa blades which have a very elaborate pattern of expansion slots and are soooo much quieter compared to a solid TCT blade it's unreal. Unsurprisingly quieter/better blades are a chunk more spendy. Freud do a metal cutting blade called 'steel demon' which should be good and relatively quiet but i've never seen them for sale in the UK so shipping usually more than negates any savings

How much use is obviously a big factor along with price but personally i'd want a proper metal cutting saw for tube etc (cold cutting followed by dry cutting followed by bandsaw), flats that are too wide to be cut in it can be done with angle grinders/plasma cutter/jigsaws etc or with a circular saw like an EVO180, EVO230 (or it's Rage versions) if fast, straight cuts with next to no cleanup/deburring are important

That's very interesting hotrodder I didn't know makita did a steel chop saw. Roughly how much would a good quality quiet blade be?

 

[Pietzeekoe]

Evolutions fury and rage range are DIY/multipurpose things. Their Raptor/EVO/painted blue models are the proper metalworking kit, compare the specs of a rage2 355mm and a raptor/evo 355 and the differences (blade, motor spec etc) become clearer.

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation.

The Dewalt looks like a good saw, however it's twice the price of the EVO355 and I doubt it's twice as good. Besides, I will run the saw probably once a week max so it won't be used daily. If I get the EVO355 I'll use the supplied blade untill it's dull and then switch over to a better blade. I just hope the EVO355 has a proper motor and gearbox that are made to last. I guess the markup Dewalt asks is largely due to the name on the saw. I wonder how much difference there really is internally. So I'd like to hear from anyone who happens to has opened one up.

 

[hotrodder]

That's very interesting hotrodder I didn't know makita did a steel chop saw. Roughly how much would a good quality quiet blade be?

I dunno what kanefusa cost new off the top of my head as i bought a load of freshly sharpened used ones for peanuts a while back- some might have one sharpening left in 'em but at £150 for 10 of 'em doesn't matter if they're now disposable. All 305 x 2.2/1.8 x 25.4 x 80T and there were no other choices for size. I expect they're 3 figures each new as not much in the way of competition with only one or two official UK sources i'm aware of... IWATA / IWASAW are another saw specialist that do dry cutting metal blades, they're typically just under £100 for 355mm/14" blades. Not a brand i've used but they have a fairly similar arrangement of expansion/vibration slots

Again not used them personally but IIRC Hitch has mentioned Alfra before, typically cheaper than Dewalt but IIRC have a 2.4mm kerf whereas Dewalt are thinner, 2.2 like Kanefusa. That said Screwfix were recently having a clear out of 355mm Dewalt DT1900 and DT1901 blades @ £20 a pop, i doubt they have many left but there's a lot for sale on the bay at the moment from a little under £50ea Makita blades can usually be picked fairly cheaply but, like Evolution blades, have no expansion slots. Dunno about the Evolution but Makita tend to 'ring' a lot, possibly as the kerf/plate thickness is a slightly skinnier 2.1/1.7mm?

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation.

The Dewalt looks like a good saw, however it's twice the price of the EVO355 and I doubt it's twice as good. Besides, I will run the saw probably once a week max so it won't be used daily. If I get the EVO355 I'll use the supplied blade untill it's dull and then switch over to a better blade. I just hope the EVO355 has a proper motor and gearbox that are made to last. I guess the markup Dewalt asks is largely due to the name on the saw. I wonder how much difference there really is internally. So I'd like to hear from anyone who happens to has opened one up.

Cheers, i doubt they'll be much in it with regards to the motor quality/duty cycle etc, like you say Dewalt 'tax' is gonna account for a fair chunk of the price difference. The most noticable differences tend to be little things like the fence/vice, base rigidity whether they chips back at the operator etc. Not needed to open mine up as the brushes are changable without taking it apart, the quick release vice is a nice touch but the q/r fence not so much although the cam locking mechanism can be bypassed by just using the allen bolt that's used to adjust tension on the cam

 

[John Bellamy]

Hi guys i just signed up to voice my opinion on this one lol

I know Evolution extremely well and can say that all RAGE machines are multipurpose and are designed for cutting wood 70% of the time and 30% steel

If you are using the saw for just steel then go for the EVO355 Raptor with the 66T blade fitted. Its more yes but its a dedicated steel cutter!

 

[Gareth J]

Second hand cold cut saw? I started with a hobby size Clarke one, not sure if they still do it new but it was pretty cheap second hand from eBay. A bit flimsy but fine on light stuff and had a coolant pump.

Wouldn't be without a cold, coolant fed chop saw now. I upgraded to a meddings one a few years back.

Edit;
This looks identical(ish) to my little Clarke one:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=271474121951&alt=web

Seems very expensive though. I'd gamble with a s/h industrial one for that money!

 

[Pietzeekoe]

I started with a hobby size Clarke one

I'm limited in terms of money and space. I have no permanent shop so everything needs to stow away at the end of the day.

Interesting development: Turns out the EVO355 I saw isn't supplied with a blade. I kept looking around and found a new Dewalt DW872 including a blade for about the same money a EVO335 with a blade would cost me.

my Dewalt

I'm guessing that's the same one Hotrodder has. Only downside to the Dewalt I see compaired to the EVO355 is that the Dewalt has more stamped parts (base, vise) which I guess would make it less rigid than the EVO355. So now the choice is between the EVO355 and the Dewalt 872. I'd like some input on the dewalt and the vise and base in particulair.

 

[Pietzeekoe]

They also have a Makita LC1230 for about the same money.... options options options...

 

[Gareth J]

I'm limited in terms of money and space. I have no permanent shop so everything needs to stow away at the end of the day.

That saw I posted about isn't any bigger than an abrasive chop saw. It's heavier but fine for one person. Forget the cost but it was on ebay a couple years ago, much less than a noisy high rpm new one anyway. I'm not saying they are ten a penny but may be worth keeping an eye out. Might even sell mine as it's never used but good to have a backup.

 

[hotrodder]

I'm guessing that's the same one Hotrodder has. Only downside to the Dewalt I see compaired to the EVO355 is that the Dewalt has more stamped parts (base, vise) which I guess would make it less rigid than the EVO355. So now the choice is between the EVO355 and the Dewalt 872. I'd like some input on the dewalt and the vise and base in particulair.

Yeah the DW872 has a pressed steel base, it's not flimsy and while the cast ally bases of the EVO or a Makita might be better* it's not like you can 'lean on' the thing when cutting. Well, you can but it'll cost a fortune in dead blades if you do so regularly.
The fence on the 872 looks more flimsy in pics as you can't see the stiffening ribs on the back of it. Like i already said the q/r adjustment of the fence isn't great, the tension adjustment of the q/r lever is set with an allen key and i tend to nip it up with that unless i'm only making or two cuts before changing the mitre angle. The moving jaw on the vice is more than stiff enough and is Q/R; don't think the EVO has a q/r vice, the Makita has one that looks like it might be more fiddly to use if wearing gloves

* There isn't a clear winner IMO, each brand has their own plus and negative points... thicker die cast ally with a steel/iron insert for the vice might make for a stiffer/more stable base but cast ally is typically more easily damaged than steel. The EVO and 872 are with 0.5kg of each other and the same 2200W input power, the Makita is 12"/305mm so unsuprisingly 3 or 4kg lighter with a lower power motor. The EVO has a slight higher cutting capacity on paper than the DeWalt (so either the motor is physically smaller or the base is longer?), both obviously beat the smaller Makita here. Evolution & Makita say theirs are noisier than the DeWalt which is possibly down to the blade based on my experience; i know a DeWalt blade is quieter than a Makita as i have a couple of each
None of them are even close to the same league as a proper low rpm cold but then neither is their price or weight. Especially when compared to a cold saw of similar cutting capacity!!