tig mma questions

[Harry44]

got a new mma machine with tig fittings, been practicing quite a bit with it, but it is really messy (like a cream coloured powder goes everywhere) the tungsten melts away really quickly, and the weld is not neat at all, i know it takes practice with tig but i didn't think it would be like this.

i have tried getting the metal perfectly clean, tungsten sharp, practicing at first without filler rod, playing with gas and amp settings.

is it the machine that isn't ideal as a tig machine being mma, i can send it back to the guy and exchange it for a ac dc machine, but it is an extra £500 i think.

any one got any ideas?

 

[mr migwire]

are you using pure argon or a co2/argon mix?

 

[Harry44]

co2 argon mix, forgot to say i have been doing mig for quite a few years and got on fine with it

 

[antonio costa]

Hi. Just an idea because you say that the tungsten is desapearing quickly. Is the TIG torch connected to the negative terminal and the ground clamp.to the positive? It could explain a lot if you have it the other Way around.

 

[antonio costa]

You already answered, you cant use co2/argon mix for TIG, only pure argon

 

[antonio costa]

That's the reason for all your troubles. First of all get pure argon, check that the TIG torch is on the negative terminal and the ground clamp on the positive. And then start practicing. Also take a look at the TIG tutorial on the forum homepage. It will give lot's of useful tips to start

 

[mr migwire]

you should only use puresheild for tig, the mix gas is no good as you have noticed.

 

[Harry44]

strange, the supplier i got it off said i could use co2 argon, must not know what he's talking about on the tig side, will try getting argon gas. thanks for the help

 

[Harry44]

would you guys upgrade to ac dc tig welder while you were at it or will the mma machine do a good weld once the gas is right?

 

[Paul.]

You only need AC if you are intending to weld aluminium, as others have said get yourself some pure argon, and have a proper read through the tutorials and the FAQ, its all in there to get you started.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tig-tutorial.htm
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/wiki/TIG_Welding_FAQ

 

[mr migwire]

I upgraded mate and it has come in handy for aluminium work on AC, if you do opt for the ac/dc then remember you need to get different tungstens for ally welding.....

if you can afford it and justify it I would go for the upgrade ...

 

[norlander]

You can knock out some fair welds with lift start valved torches once you learn to live/work round the limitations. I did upgrade to an AC/DC set, because I got a good deal, now I have AC, and have welded ali, its been fun but I'm not sure I would go to the expense of AC second time round-mine is a 200amp set, so its ok for light ali; anything meatier would need more amps I think, although I think I read on here that running an argon helium mix or something like that can get a lower output set to weld thicker stuff-but don't quote me on that-I'm not sure.
But anyhow, the proper TIG set gives pre n post gas, upslope/downslope, and HF start, maybe pulse, and 2T and 4T latching, all nice features to have to make life a bit easier.
I would get the right gas and keep going for a bit, before looking to upgrade.

 

[Bill Edwards]

What are you planning/hoping to weld?
And what is the machine you have bought?

 

[Richard.]

You can knock out some fair welds with lift start valved torches once you learn to live/work round the limitations. I did upgrade to an AC/DC set, because I got a good deal, now I have AC, and have welded ali, its been fun but I'm not sure I would go to the expense of AC second time round-mine is a 200amp set, so its ok for light ali; anything meatier would need more amps I think, although I think I read on here that running an argon helium mix or something like that can get a lower output set to weld thicker stuff-but don't quote me on that-I'm not sure.
But anyhow, the proper TIG set gives pre n post gas, upslope/downslope, and HF start, maybe pulse, and 2T and 4T latching, all nice features to have to make life a bit easier.
I would get the right gas and keep going for a bit, before looking to upgrade.

Ar he mix does run quite a bit hotter than argon thus allowing for lower welding currents and faster travel speeds. It can tend to not have as good a starting charectoristics (actually initiating the arc I found) but overall it adding helium in the mix does improve weld quality further. (See some of backperges vids on the Alu won't deoxidise thread. Something I didn't know was a very small amount of O2 seems to improve arc stability further as seen in those vid clips. Regarding the op yep that's an easy one any amount of co2 in the shield on Tig will demolish that tungsten and stability will be pretty awful. I've done it by mistake before
Just go for pure argon and ensure you purge any of the remaining mixed gas out of the lines before you start. Regards to ac. It's only going to be an advantage if your going to start welding Alu if not don't waste the extra money as for something half decent your starting money is £1200-1500 and for something very decent in single phase £3000 and upwards.

 

[Richard.]

strange, the supplier i got it off said i could use co2 argon, must not know what he's talking about on the tig side, will try getting argon gas. thanks for the help

If this guy advised you to use the ar co2 mix and it was clear that Tig welding was the ambition then he is in the wrong game as we are talking about the very basics here. I would say at the very least your entitled to a straight swap out for a bottle of argon despite the cost differences. And if I was the supplier in question there would be a couple of tubes of filler rods thrown in with it.

 

[Jim Davey]

You'd not be in business long if that were you Richard

 

[Richard.]

Have to disagree with ya there Jim. Looking after the guys that pay the bills (customers) is what would keep u in business. So it costs you to rectify a mistake but in the long game he's likely to come back. And as you know it takes a long time to build a good reputation and minutes to distroy it.

 

[Jim Davey]

Anyone giving out advice like that isn't going to last long unless they learn quick.
But the reward has to befit the level of the mistake, a free bottle of a more expensive gas, plus 2 free packs of rods seems over and above the necessary as far as I'm concerned. This is al hypothetical anyway, the supplier might well give him nothing but an apology.

 

[wheresmejumper]

I have heard from both gas suppliers and welding equipment suppliers that you only need pure argon to tig weld stainless.carbon steel is grand with co2 mix!

 

[Jim Davey]

I've also heard the lad at the local BOC gas n gear centre says it's ok to oil the threads on your oxy reg stems of the threads bind. Doesn't mean I'm going to follow his advice.
I've also been told that increasing the positive cycle on an AC set will increase penetration instead of cleaning. That came from the engineer at a forum favourite machine supplier no less but I didn't believe him either.
Lots of confusion creeps in when customers use odd terminology to describe what they want, I mean they are the customer, they know what they want right? And most do, but the amount of times someone walks in and says I want argoshield and gets argon, or Co2 when really they want weld mix or vice versa is incredible.
Still, it's lesson learned for both parties, we've all hooked up the wrong gas and had that moment of confusion as it all goes fizzy and horrible at the tungsten, he'll know what to ask for next time and how to spot a mix up too. Every cloud and all that.