Is it right to make BIG mark up's on parts ?? Think I'm being had off by the spark.

[Robotstar5]

From my sparky mate it seems pretty standard practice for them to make 'extra' on the items they supply. Charge RRP and then get the discount with the supplier.

A lot of trades are the same, the tradesman has to cost in "insurance" in case the supplied unit fails during the warranty period as although the unit will be replaced by the wholesaler free of charge, there is still the cost of removing and re-fitting which is not covered by the manufacturer or supplier.

 

[Rocketman]

A lot of trades are the same, the tradesman has to cost in "insurance" in case the supplied unit fails during the warranty period as although the unit will be replaced by the wholesaler free of charge, there is still the cost of removing and re-fitting which is not covered by the manufacturer or supplier.

That would make sense but other than the fact they do it for everything, cables, plugs sockets etc.

Anyway it should be covered in the bill in a different manner - ie higher hourly rate or addition costs.

Believe it or not if you say items cost a certain amount and they didn't you are just a liar simple as.

 

[Robotstar5]

That would make sense but other than the fact they do it for everything, cables, plugs sockets etc.

Anyway it should be covered in the bill in a different manner - ie higher hourly rate or addition costs.

Believe it or not if you say items cost a certain amount and they didn't you are just a liar simple as.

That's because anything manufactured can have a defect which could fail at a later date.

I agree that the price of the lights should not have been stated as this thread proves what a it opens.

When I quote for a job it is all inclusive, just one figure to "supply & fit"

 

[Rocketman]

Roboststar5 that is the correct way 'supply and fit' I just have a real issue with people saying something cost something when it didn't just to move costs about.

 

[tedmagnum]

He gave me a 'print out' of all the parts on the job from the 'Supplier'. Looks like it was made on a home computer by an 8 year old. No company name on it. No phone number etc. Means nothing to me.

The instant reaction I got off the guy when I questioned the price of the lights was proof enough. He flew off the handle. I had to calm him down.

At that point I decided it wasn't worth the agro and I only had myself to blame for agreeing to something that I did not have broken down properly. I left it too late. I needed them all done THIS week before I go overseas.

They charged me £300 labour and were here for about 10 hours in total over two days...So £30 per hour. Seems fair enough to me.

They did do a GOOD job though. Their skill and professionalism was never at question.

So all in I paid £950 for six LED security lights on light sensors. £650 for the lights and a some brackets with a few sensors and boxes.


But I say it again. It was my own fault for not getting multiple quotes and my own fault for not getting a proper breakdown.

If I had the time, I would have bought all the lights myself and fitted them myself and just got someone in to do the wiring.

Live and learn.

 

[Kayos]

If I do a job I give a price, what stuff costs and how much I charge is irrelevant. You accepted the quote then paid, yes you're upset and you were (seemingly) lied to, however had they said its £650 labour and £300 for the lights I reckon you would have told them no and got another spark in

 

[500e]

Every one has to make a living with overheads, insurance, (van + insurance running costs) profit etc it is an expensive world.
We tell new customers We are not cheap but we are good & we will be there if things do go pear shaped & they will occasionally it is then that you find out what the extra was fore.
Was with a customer Tuesday phone rang he said hope you don't mind me answering office person is out, it was a cold call.
He had a conversation & the last words were No we don't buy on price only the service is more important No I do not care you will match any price.
He then told me it was a competitor who offered prices substantially below ours but the service we give was more important, we have dealt with a lot of our customers for 20\30 years & hope we give a service second to none but it has to be paid for! if we gave things away something has to go & it is usually service this includes warranty work.
A lot of sellers on the net have no\low tech back up see post regarding generators to day, some working out of home or 1 room making a £1 a box & relying on volume, some even get manufacturer to deliver direct after you have paid for product.
As you say 2 people working at hight lucky to get people to work of a ladder with H&S
We do no work without priced quote & confirmation of acceptance, if it costs more then we swallow the difference unless customer changes requirements then they will be advised this was not in quote it will be an add on
The guy was silly to inflate RRP if they were 10 watt LED have seen them for as low as £7.00 £11.50 with PIR but hey ho you asked for supply & fitt

 

[tedmagnum]

If I do a job I give a price, what stuff costs and how much I charge is irrelevant. You accepted the quote then paid, yes you're upset and you were (seemingly) lied to, however had they said its £650 labour and £300 for the lights I reckon you would have told them no and got another spark in

Ain't that the god dam truth....

We live, we learn , we die...... And the cycle starts over again.

 

[wheresmejumper]

No receipt for a cash sale is laughable.beyond laughable.
If I buy something on account, almost anywhere, there will be a list of items with no value next to them.i would have to specify beforehand for costs to be shown.
charging that markup is almost criminal.i would tell him so, and let him know that if anybody asks me to recommend a spark in future, I will make sure I mention him and his scam.

 

[Rocketman]

Yep if you could actually find out what the parts cost from the supplier his ass is grass. Is it worth the time and money to do that probably not.

 

[sparkysy]

Yes as said the wholesaler could be robbing him on the price of them it's happened to us before, then you get back to the office and start looking on the Web at the same thing half the price!

 

[the snooper]

from what consumer.co.uk / dealing with dodgy tradesmen

3. Reasonable cost
Just like timeframe, if you have no contractual clauses specifically in relation to fees payable, the assumption is that you will be charged a reasonable price. However, problems tend to arise where a service is commissioned, exact price cannot be given and the buyer is then presented with an extortionate bill. Where this happens, and where you have little choice but to pay (for example an emergency plumber), but you must make clear your objections at the time of paying, so that you can take action at a later date. You can do this by writing “paid under protest” somewhere on their documentation or (preferably) on the back of a cheque, and by following this up with an immediate letter to the organisation in question to dispute the price you were charged including evidence of alternative ‘going rates’.
It may be that unforeseen additional work will be required and costs will go up. It shouldn’t be by too much and you could argue that the builder could reasonably have anticipated this when providing the estimate. In any case you should limit your liability by requesting that the tradesman or builder informs you if it is going to cost over a certain amount.
It is always advisable to pay the money in stages, leaving a significant amount until the end, when you are fully satisfied that the work has been completed to satisfaction. You may be required to pay money in advance for the ordering of specific goods, but never be afraid to ask for paperwork so you can check it for yourself.


the thing here is reasonable price, I would argue that a 100% mark up is anything but reasonable, it could even be more then 100% if he got trade discount as well, he may have even got the lights cheaper then you could find them.
there is no way in the world I would have paid 900+ for 6 lights fitted always get more then one written quote check if your been had over then accept the quote if not and never pay up front

 

[Welderpaul]

We put a 30% mark up on materials we buy. Got to consider that in our game, we buy materials sometimes 3-4 months before we see payment. We have decent credit terms with our suppliers but more often than not have to pay for them before we get paid. I don't think its unreasonable to do this.

 

[Bill Edwards]

There is nothing wrong with making a markup on something/anything. Nor does it matter how much that markup is, it isn't really important whether it is 1% or 500% - though naturally it is never nice to see that you could have saved a lot of money.

At the end of the day whenever you ask somebody to supply something you have to expect them to add something on. As said, they'll have the hassle if it doesn't fit, doesn't work etc. They also have the knowledge and expertise to get the right part in the first place. In addition to this, once they've bought and fitted said part they're carrying the risk of not being paid because at that point they've past the point where they'll be able to return them.

If I sent my car for an oil & filter change and to have the brake pads renewed I would expect the garage to make a profit on the oil, filter and pads as well as the actual labor. Yes they'll probably get them for a better price than I could and then charge a little more than I'd be charged, but that isn't wrong - it's business.


However, with all this in mind, it is not acceptable to be lied to in order to justify markup. That is very different.
Naturally, mistakes can be made - somebody may work for years thinking they're getting parts at a good price and being very reasonable at the price they sell them on for, while genuinely not knowing that they're paying more than they could be.
But on the rare occasions that happens an honest person's response would not be confrontational.

 

[the snooper]

We put a 30% mark up on materials we buy. Got to consider that in our game, we buy materials sometimes 3-4 months before we see payment. We have decent credit terms with our suppliers but more often than not have to pay for them before we get paid. I don't think its unreasonable to do this.

Not unreasonable

 

[brightspark]

From my sparky mate it seems pretty standard practice for them to make 'extra' on the items they supply. Charge RRP and then get the discount with the supplier.

yes add 25 percent on what they paid any more and there greedy gits

 

[brewdexta]

I had some work on my borehole done recently, a new pump, a faulty casting replaced and the mild steel pipe changed for stainless, basically I wanted it to not to fail in the middle of winter. I could have done it myself however there was a danger of the pump snapping off the pipe and dropping into the bottom to the borehole as it gets clarted up with an iron sludge that can make it stick, plus I was working away a bit so I got the company that usually does bore hole maintenance for me in.

Last time I used them the old geezer than owned the business was running it, nice chap, can talk for England and you knew he wouldn't rip you off. Now his daughter is running the business and put a huge mark-up on the pump, I didn't know about the change at the top so I didn't ask for a breakdown of the parts, only the labour. So I called her, she wouldn't negotiate on the pump price so I gave her two choices, be more reasonable and we can continue to do business or stick to your guns and I won't use you or recommend you to neighbours again.

She chose the former so I will now use somebody else.

 

[marlinspike]

You have my sympathy OP. For me, the key thing is that you were told you were getting top spec stuff and you got standard stuff. It is not unreasonable to think that a light costing £100 would be something special, so to my mind you have been misled. Ideally we would all find out the exact specs of every item before committing, but you took them at their word as professionals. The fact that he flew off the handle confirms to me that he knew he was busted. Too late to do much, but I would make sure everybody I know hears about it.

 

[Richard.]

His ONLY mistake was telling a porky pie about the cost of the things.
Let's say he made 100% on em
That's a shade over £300.
His hourly rate of £30 an hour might just cover both guys wages.
So £325 has now got to be put into all those costs and overheads and consumables, liability ,travel,van etc
I bet that job hardly turned a profit
There is no shame on the amount he may have made on those lights and rather than lying he should of been up front and said you will prob get them for £50 a peace else where but ................ And then given you the sales pitch.

 

[zx9]

I am sorry the OP feels let down by an old contact / mate but just backs up the old addage, get it in writing.
Not in defence of the sparks but just a few thoughts:
The sparks may not have wanted the job and just thought up a number for the cost of the lights, knowing that he would be covered in the unlikely event that you proceded with the instillation.
Possible reasons for not wanting the job, out side his usual area or usual type of work or too much core business work on at the moment, though that is unlikely as it took two of them two days to do the work.
Reasons for taking along the old boy, I have had to employ a second man for jobs where he is only needed for an hour or so perhaps to hold ladders or do a cable pull but as I have had to pay for a full day of his time he spends most of the day 'sitting around' well actually tidying up tools / the site / keeping watch on tools and van when my back is turned or off site collecting parts / tools from the van.
Cash in hand no way, every thing gets a VAT invoice but often as said above to supply and install.
For one of my customers, a five star hotel chain, I often supply and install at the importers recomended price, they can look on the net and see the same box much cheeper but would not have a clue how to set up on their AV / lighting systems, the cost of programming and install comes out of the 20 to 30% margin on the box. They always pay within two or three days by BACS on recipt of a pdf invoice. They often ask if I can get them say a large LED TV, my responce is to tell tem to buy from the company who supply the room TVs because they will always be cheeper, unless it is needed at very short notice and I will obtain one for them but it will cost more that the same TV from Richer / PC World/ RGB because they sell to the public for less than I can buy from a distributer.