Oxy-turbo kits

[h3rman]

Wasn't sure where to put this, so thought I'd put it here. Hoping someone can offer advice on these? Been wanting a portable heating system that I can take to friend houses with ease and use when working on their cars as well as my own.

These claim to reach temps of over 3000*C and the oxygen bottles claim to last for 30 minutes where as the fuel can seemingly last for 5 hours! To be honest, I will only be using it to heat seized bolts/studs, etc, so the longest I would imagine it will be on for at any given time is 2-3 minutes to just heat whatever I'm working on until it's cherry red. I've checked prices of the bottles, etc so I am well aware that this is not something that I can use daily as it's just too expensive to run, but then I am a hobbyist, not a professional, and it will sit for months at a time without use, but when it is needed it will be worth its weight in gold (if it works) just like some of my other tools.

So basically, are these things any good at what they claim to do? Would it work well with the larger 32mm drive shaft nuts that are welded on from years of rust? Basically, would this be a half-decent portable DIY alternative to the oxy-acetelene torch?

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I have one of the Bernzo-Matic kits which I've used in the past for purposes just like those you describe.

It's getting difficult to source bottles which will fit it now, so I'm looking at either getting an adapter of some sort lathe turned to fit, or bin it when my present gas bottles empty.

Assuming you're buying new, you shouldn't have this problem.

 

[wristpin]

Bullfinch do a brazing torch to run of propane. Hotter than a standard propane torch but not up to oxy acetylene temperature. Have you looked at the induction heaters that are now being punted around to the motor trade, no gas , no flame?
www.mini-ductor.co.uk

other brands available!

 

[Bill Edwards]

I think you'll have a real struggle with the large nuts. When I want to heat something like that using oxy acet - which is as hot as it gets - I use a cutting nozzle which gives out a lot of heat, and to get most of it up to red can still take a bit of time. I think you'll find that these kits will only have small nozzles more suited to welding and will probably take an age to get anything bigger than an M12 to a nice red.

 

[Maker]

At school there's a torch that runs on natural gas and a small (tankless) compressor and that gets flat bar cherry red in a few seconds. You might be able to get one of them and run it off bbq gas bottles. I think its called an air propane torch, but I might be wrong.

 

[hotrodder]

^^ Yeah, Flamefast are the usual suspects with their brazing hearths that use forced air + fuel gas.

As Bill the issue is heat more than temperature, for example while oxy acetylene has a higher max flame temperature than other flavours of fuel gas the acetylene alternatives all produce far more BTUs of heat in total with most of it produced in the secondary flame. Larger tips is where it's at when you to heat stuff hence 'rosebuds' or cutting nozzles which flow far more gas than a small welding tip

30 mins from a disposible O2 is very optimistic IMO unless playing with the smallest tip in the kit working with jewellery. And the O2 bottles are usually at least £20ea! I wouldn't be surprised if one of those O2 bottles could be emptied in 15 mins if using the largest tip in the kit which is still too small (and definately too focused) for heating something like a seized 32mm nut

I don't think they're in business anymore but there used to be a kinda hybrid called portaflame which used a small refillable* O2 that took a 'proper' regulator coupled with a disposible fuel gas cylinder (stored as a liquid hence the long running time), basically the fuel side from an oxy-turbo or Rothenberger roxy kit...

A hobbyweld O2 cylinder is about the same size as a BOC size F... http://www.boconline.co.uk/internet.lg.lg.gbr/en/images/Oxygen-factsheet410_54571.pdf and today someone pointed out that BOC have introduced a 1/2 price rental with no collection fee etc for light users that applies to pretty much all flavours of gas that exist in smaller sizes (Y and below?) by the looks of things. Renting a BOC size E oxy for a year is probably a bunch cheaper than the equivilant number (5 or 6 by my reckoning?) of disposibles...

 

[Kent]

Used to use propane for preheating castings etc over and above acetylene. Never tried it in anger on a big seized up M12 though I have used small plumbers type propane blowlamps for freeing stuff I don't want to get too hot

 

[h3rman]

Bullfinch do a brazing torch to run of propane. Hotter than a standard propane torch but not up to oxy acetylene temperature. Have you looked at the induction heaters that are now being punted around to the motor trade, no gas , no flame?
www.mini-ductor.co.uk

other brands available!

I actually already have one of those (the Mini-Ductor II, not the "+" version), bought it back in May 2012 and it is for lack of a better word, awesome! Can heat a 17mm hex head to the point it is glowing bright orange in just 45 seconds. However for the large 32mm driveshaft nuts it gets them hot and you can see smoke coming from them, but it never gets them glowing red hot due to the driveshaft taking away a lot of the heat, up to the point that the tools thermal cut-off kicks in to prevent damage to the invertor.

So while I have the Mini-Ductor for 95% of jobs, there is still the odd job where I find myself needing more heat or trying to expand the threads in a turbo elbow to remove a stud, which the Mini-Ductor can't do very well, as it's not what it was designed for.

That propane & forced air from the compressor sounds like it might be up for the job, already for BBQ gas bottles and a compressor. Apparently oxy-propane is almost as good as oxy-acetelene, so oxy-forced air should be quite close to the oxy-propane setup. Going to have a look for these just now, but if anyone has info on one of these setups that will heat a 32mm drifshaft nut and the likes cherry red, please post.

 

[Maker]

Flamefast make this and this. The one at school has 2 levers, gas and air, that need moving in the right order and could be easily knocked on something if used under a car for example. These ones look like they have a knob to adjust them so it shouldn't accidentally change the flame.

 

[Bill Edwards]

There is a massive difference between heating a piece of metal in a hearth and freeing off a seized part on a car.
Oxy anything will produce ample heat. For small items even a plumbers blowlamp can work, in time.
Add in an air supply (compressor) to the fuel, such as propane, and you get a big flame that gives out loads of heat.

However, they're often hopeless for real world work on vehicles. The brazing hearth equipment may have the heat but it spreads it out over a massive area - so when you're trying to heat the nut on that exhaust manifold to a cherry red you'll find that anything other than oxy acet/propane doesn't just heat the nut, it heats the manifold, engine, entire engine bay - leaving you at best with the wrong parts heated, at worst a fire. This can be enough of a problem with O/A still, but the heat is very focused and is actually usable.

The blowlamps/forced air blowlamps are great at heating large pieces of steel and can be superior to O/A for this, but not for work on cars. That's why all the garages you see have a pair of O/A bottles, nothing else.
If you want to do this on the cheap I would suggest getting a cheap rent free bottle of oxygen and a bottle of propane if you don't feel you can stretch to acetylene. It's not as good as acetylene, but the output from oxy/propane will be far superior (reasonably focused) to any ordinary blowlamp setup.

 

[bigegg]

Might be worth looking at a "Reil" type home made propane burner? I use a "mongo", and I can heat up a 1" steel bar to white hot in about a minute with mine - not in a forge/furnace.

They don't use compressed air - it's a venturi system, so uses the pressure of the propane to drag in air.

 

[Maker]

Might be worth looking at a "Reil" type home made propane burner? I use a "mongo", and I can heat up a 1" steel bar to white hot in about a minute with mine - not in a forge/furnace.

They don't use compressed air - it's a venturi system, so uses the pressure of the propane to drag in air.

They sound really good. I've just spent some time reading about them and some people have said they are so hot their tips melt after a while. Could you post a pic of yours?

 

[bigegg]

They sound really good. I've just spent some time reading about them and some people have said they are so hot their tips melt after a while. Could you post a pic of yours?

I don't have any pics, and my camera is FUBAR. Plenty of info on the tinterweb tho.

 

[Rig Pig]

I would think that making a driveshaft nut glow would probably knacker it and the driveshaft, it wouldn't do the bearings any favours ether. An inch drive socket set and breaker bar (with added scaffold pole!) is all I use, get an assistant to put there foot on the brake and just step on the bar.

 

[Maker]

I would think that making a driveshaft nut glow would probably knacker it and the driveshaft, it wouldn't do the bearings any favours ether. An inch drive socket set and breaker bar (with added scaffold pole!) is all I use, get an assistant to put there foot on the brake and just step on the bar.

Inch drive, they must be stiff (not much of a car person). I was looking through my cousins snap on tools earlier and I couldn't believe the size of a 3/4" adaptor.
Why not use an impact wrench.

 

[Rig Pig]

I have collected some useful 'man size' kit over the years, relics of a misspent youth working on sized up oilfield battered machinery!

 

[Maker]

Anything this big

 

[Rig Pig]

Not at home, but now I want some!

 

[Maker]

For all those pesky 8" bolts that everything is assembled with nowadays.

Seriously though, when does anyone ever need a socket that big.

 

[Rig Pig]

Process pipe work and vessel doors are clamped with enormous stud bolts, we use a hydraulic torque machine to fit and remove them, crane slew ring bolts can be massive too, there is a lot of big industrial and agricultural machinery that uses king size bolting!