Dual Purpose 30 - 150A ?

[Dicky-Art]

Hello, I'm after a bit of advice please! I used to use a DIY stick welder many years ago and wasn't too bad at it. I did welding as part of my apprenticeship 30+ years ago so am well out of the knowledge and practice arena!!

I want to be able to weld bodywork, bike frames and 6mm (v & root gap) mill steel flatbar.

Thinking of getting the - Clarke MIG151EN Turbo 'No-Gas' MIG Welder.

Is it worth getting a dual purpose MIG? I like the idea of not needing gas but concerned about the weld strength. Don't mind a bit of spatter as long as it's not detrimental to the weld.

Also is it a false economy getting "no-gas" welder if I want to use gas also, as the gas and reel would cost extra?

Sorry things keep popping up to question! Is it possible to use no-gas wire with gas? Or is it a polarity change?

Thanks and appreciate any advice.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I think you will find that model is a gas/no gas MIG, it has the capability to be used with gas.

6mm is pushing the limits a bit with that model, probably ok for garden ornamental stuff but if it is a critical strength requirement then I would suggest you require more power or even perhaps an MMA set.

 

[Rig Pig]

The mig sounds ok, I have a similar size set with an old Oxford 180 amp stick set for thicker stuff, old industrial welders are amazingly cheap and are a pleasure to use compared with a buzz box.

 

[Dicky-Art]

MIG151EN is a dual purpose but is named "No Gas" in the MM catalogue.
What about MIG90EN dual purpose as it goes down to 25 amps and an EasyArc 165 stick? All in for £280

 

[BrokenBiker]

MIG151EN is a dual purpose but is named "No Gas" in the MM catalogue.
What about MIG90EN dual purpose as it goes down to 25 amps and an EasyArc 165 stick? All in for £280

a 90 amp machine will be next to useless if you want strong welds, they lack uty cycle, are often difficult to use compared to bigger machines. I would go for the 151 and a cheapo ac stick welder for anyting thicker than 5-6mm

 

[cumbriasteve]

MIG151EN is a dual purpose but is named "No Gas" in the MM catalogue.
What about MIG90EN dual purpose as it goes down to 25 amps and an EasyArc 165 stick? All in for £280

The 90EN would be fine for car bodywork, I used one to restore a Triumph Spitfire and it served me well, as brokenbiker mentions they can have a low duty cycle but that never came into play, it was a a case of tack, short weld, move clamps, have a coffee, tack, argue with wife, weld, have a cig etc etc ... so it was never really required to do any long runs.

I presume the easyarc is what we all call a 'buzzbox', these can take a bit of getting used to but again I used one for many years and it did an enormous amount of welding and once you have got a bit of practice in with them they certainly do the job, they can also often be picked up for very few £ notes, usually around £25ish in used condition.

Make sure it is a turbo (fan cooling) model, I can't remember mine ever cutting out due to overheating and I used to make, gates, railings, camping and boat trailers, I get the feeling the older models tend to be a bit better than the newer one's.

There are loads on ebay, also loads of the old oil cooled arc sets, heavy as hell but great last forever machines.

 

[Dicky-Art]

a 90 amp machine will be next to useless if you want strong welds, they lack uty cycle, are often difficult to use compared to bigger machines. I would go for the 151 and a cheapo ac stick welder for anyting thicker than 5-6mm

Is the Easyark no good as a cheap stick welder? The 90EN would be for thin bodywork type stuff.

What models would you recommend?

thanks for the feedback.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I would recommend something like the 151 or a 160. it will do thin body work all day long, if you have to make 2 tacks, run a bead then wait a few mins the job is going to take ages, if you have a machine that will run at 30 amps all day long it will go a lot quicker.

I have no experience of the easyark, but for 200 notes you could get a brand new dc inverter like my xti160, which will weld massive thicknesses without even hesitating

 

[PTvor]

Is the Easi-Arc this?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-easiarc-165-160amp-arc-welder

It talks about "Durable protective steel housing with side ventilators to help maintain duty cycle" but doesn't mention a fan or they'd trumpet "turbo cooled". I'd assume it has no fan and has a terrible duty cycle. These marketing types are so careful and creative with words. You could fit a fan but as cumbriasteve says, you could get much better value in a buzz-box second hand - the older the better in a reasonable condition, or an old oil cooled welder, which sometimes go for silly low money.

As bb says, for £200ish you can get an inverter with a decent reputation and guarantee, which will burn 3.2mm rods as fast as you might reasonably want as an amateur and not flinch, and burn lo-hys and just about anything else apart from cellulosics.

 

[Dicky-Art]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Parweld-X...427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25846ed2f3

OK sounds/looks good but "DC inverter" and "lift TIG" are new terminology to me!!
That lot new would be around £450. Is there no welder that could do MIG and MMA for bodywork and 6mm?

 

[Dicky-Art]

Yeah I get what you say PT. Turbo Fan or Oil cooled stick welder.
Might have to get into TIG instead of MIG . Knew a TIG welder on reactor pipework, looks a bit skillfull for me! But his welds were (is this wrong) beautiful!

 

[PTvor]

I think you'd be looking at a MIG inverter machine to get any serious duty cycle welding 6mm steel with MIG, or pay a lot for a transformer MIG machine which could do it, or get a MIG/MMA inverter.

http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/Mig_Welder/240V_Mig_Welders/Mig_Welder_R-Tech_IMIG180

http://www.weldequip.com/ifl-170-mig.htm

http://www.weldequip.com/jasic-mig.htm



DC inverter - inverters run at 25KHz plus rather than 50Hz mains frequency and so can have a very small, efficient and light transformer. They always have rectifiers in the output and so they all have a DC output apart from expensive DC/AC TIG machines which have an extra stage which you can switch on to turn DC into AC for welding aluminium. "DC inverter" sounds like something from a marketeer who hasn't much of a clue.

I believe all arc rods will run on DC, but only some (most popular types) run on AC. Also, inverters give you hot start and arc force and anti-stick, all of which mean that rods which run badly, or not at all, on a buzz box run easily on an inverter. The old oil cooled welders can usually run anything apart from DC only rods as they commonly have a high voltage range which you can use. A few of the older buzz boxes also had a high voltage range.

Inverters have their problems, like not liking being dropped or showered with grinder sparks and being expensive to fix if they go wrong, which they do.

You can do scratch start TIG with any DC welding power source and all inverters can do it but it has a few problems. Lift TIG means you only have to touch the work with the electrode and take it away and the arc starts. HF start means the electrode doesn't have to contact the work to start the arc - just push the button. HF start needs an extra load of circuitry.

Well done TIG welds are beautiful, but I think it's another step in terms of expense and skill.

If you don't want to spend much money, go for a second hand Clarke MIG and a old buzz box or oil cooled welder. I'd avoid modern buzz boxes if you have to learn arc welding because you'll want to burn a lot of rods in practice and you'll spend most of your time waiting for the sod to cool down.

 

[Dicky-Art]

Cheers PT that's a good read.
The R-Tech looks more like what I'm after. The others are a bit serious for me.
My garage is wired via 32A RCD to 13A household metal sockets. If I'm using 13A in for 160A MMA would that cope with 6mm v root gap?
Thanks again.

 

[PTvor]

You'll blow the fuse in the 13A plug if it isn't.

You ought to run a one of those from a 16A industrial plug and socket with an appropriate connection to the consumer unit with the proper MCB. If you've got a substantial connection to the circuit with the 13A sockets, I can't see why you couldn't fit a consumer unit in the garage with a 16A socket taken off it. I'm sure a leccy will be along shortly to give the correct version.

You should be able to do 6mm v root gap with a 3.2 mm rod running at about 120A and a couple of passes, and inverters won't blow fuses at 120A. I don't think many people on here use 4mm rods much.

 

[normspanners]

http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/Mig_Welder/240V_Mig_Welders/Mig_Welder_R-Tech_IMIG180

I have just bought one of these, only just put a plug on it, and fitted the reel of wire, will be running it tomorrow, it does seem a nice bit of kit though.
mma and mig gas and nogas. I fitted 16amp blue plug btw. but made an adapter lead 13-16amp just in case
Will let you know my thoughts.

 

[aesmith]

If you've got a substantial connection to the circuit with the 13A sockets, I can't see why you couldn't fit a consumer unit in the garage with a 16A socket taken off it.

Not a sparky, but have done my own workshop and garage electrics in the past. If the garage is served from a 32A breaker then the connection will be either a 4mm radial (one cable) or a 2.5mm ring. If it's the former I can't see any reason why that shouldn't be be taken into a small consumer unit which in turn would have a 16A (type C) breaker serving one 16A socket for the welder, and a second 16 or 20A for the existing sockets.

 

[normspanners]

Ran the R-Tech_IMIG180 today just had a play seemed good but it was running on a 100ft 2.5mm extension so I think I would have had a little volt drop. It ran cleanly on co2.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Ran the R-Tech_IMIG180 today just had a play seemed good but it was running on a 100ft 2.5mm extension so I think I would have had a little volt drop. It ran cleanly on co2.

Any photos of the co2 welds would be appreciated
I am doing less and less welding and paying for a big bottle of mix, I am thinking of dropping down to co2 at £12 a year rental and £15 refill (cheap as chips) but wary of feedback by some who appear to be a bit negative about it's use

 

[normspanners]

I didnt take any photos if i get it out again tomorrow I will try cant promise though as I have to build my lads VXR engine up this weekend, under orders from THE BOSS.
I have pure argon, argoshield, but use the c02 for portable jobs thats why I went for the R-Tech_IMIG180 light and simple and can throw the c02 in the back of the disco or van easily.
I find c02 totally ok. for most jobs. MUCH better than gasless wire, (which the R-Tech_IMIG180 will do) but the spatter is terrible last time I tried it with bits all over the bench mind you it was on arally and using two sunglasses taped on top of each other cause they forgot the mask i welded up a clutch pedal and a mk1 cortina axle that had to be cut open to get the broken half shaft bit out.

 

[Dicky-Art]

I'll add a small consumer unit with a 16A MCB and an isolator switch with a 16A plug outlet. Can come out of my red isolator switch.