Welding melting my shroud, tip and swan neck!

[mazza411]

Hi,
I have recently acquired my Clarke MIG-151TE which I bought used, I started off with no problems welding on an old tow bar building up my technique, but the other day the tip just melted and I had to use mole grips to unscrew it which left a bit of copper in the swan neck, I couldn't get this out and in trying to fit a new tip it actually ruined the thread so i went and bought a new swan neck, went home and fitted it and within about 2-3 seconds i smelt a weird smell and the shroud had melted, on further inspection so had the tip to the swan neck so that's £15 down the drain in no time at all
Ive heard that spatter can cause problems similar but surely not after such a short period. I can imagine that this problem could be down to my technique, and I'm assuming that I'm welding too close but whenever I try welding a bit further out it just spits about even more!

Sorry for my life story but im new to this forum and wanted to make sure I got every detail right

Thanks,

Matt

 

[Country Joe]

I don't know if its the constant heating/cooling cycles, but the tip can sometimes be a bit reluctant to come out.
I only ever tighten them in by hand, as if you give it too much of a "nip" with pliers or some similar tool, it seems to bring about this kind of problem.
If it's spitting loads, and the arc length doesn't seem to make any difference, maybe the wire feed needs a bit of adjustment.
Could be other thing's too! My pair of "solutions" are hardly a definitive list!

All the Best,
CJ

 

[Country Joe]

Oh yeah, nearly forgot - where's my manners?

Welcome to the Forum!

CJ

 

[zardoz]

Welcome to the Forum.

Thats just weird! Dont suppose you have a pic of this ruined piece of equipment ? The shroud melted too ? Thats some serious heat! I doubt if it you welding too close though. Certainly not after 3 seconds welding, or even 3 minutes welding. Technique wouldnt cause that. Is the new tip the correct size? Have you tried pressing the trigger and seeing the wire spool out ok? Does it change when you change the wire speed setting? Make sure its not sticking somewhere. Take the side off and make sure the spool is spinning ok, etc.

Also have you tried a new liner, sometimes putting some rusty wire through it causes a build up that slows down the wires passage through the liner. This sometimes happens when using a machine that has been kept in damp conditions through the non summer months of the year. The top layer of wire can be rusted and you dont notice it, and mistake the red colour for the copper coating. After a winter in the garage i always spool off the top layer and dump it. Putting those silicon moisture capture bags in your machine can sometimes help (though not as much as storing it in the house over the winter, if you can pursuade the Missus

Hopefully if that does not help, then someone will be along to help you out soon, with a piece of obvious advice that I am too dim to see at 5am.

ps: here is the manual in pdf format in case you need it

 

[shenion]

I overheated the torch on my 130EN. Was doing a lot of tacks and had the torch real close to the work. Kept at least 1cm torch/work distance after that.

It distorted the neck liner and had to fit a new one. you might check if it is still straight.

 

[mazza411]

Thanks for the welcome and advice guys, annoyingly i dont have a picture of the shround and threw it and bin collection was this morning, (I must have been annoyed at the time!) but heres the tip and brand new neck..

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The tip was new with the neck and i only did it up by hand, the piece got stuck because of the heat when it first melted I think.
I was hoping it was my technique because thats easy to fix but the fact that it was fine a few days before with the only issue then being that the regulator wasn't working so i was getting loads of holey welds but no heat issues...
And also that i would assume would reduce the chance of it being the materials corroding ect. ?
But thanks for the tips on storing wire and stuff over winter, I might just bring the spool inside?
Ive bought new parts tonight and im taking it to somebody I know who welds in a garage so if he has the same problem we know its not me! could it also be down to inferior parts from clarke?

Thanks again,

Matt

 

[weldequip]

What diameter wire are you using? If it's 0.6mm it won't carry the current at high power settings so will 'flare' back to the tip. If it it's 0.8mm - as it should be for thicker material - and it's doing the same, probably a blocked torch lining; assuming you have the wire feed rate about right, ie. Higher Volts settings - higher wire feed, Lower Volts setting, lower wire feed.
Those torches are only rated up to 120 amps anyway, so for extended use at full power they do overheat quickly.

 

[zardoz]

what were you trying to weld at the time, how thick was the metal and what settings were you on ?

 

[mazza411]

It is 0.6mm wire actually and it is an old tow bar so more than 5mm thick, ive used highest power and 7.5 wire speed. Heres a picture of the shroud

[/URL][/IMG]
Matt

 

[zardoz]

then to be honest it might just be a case of the 0.6mm wire probably couldnt take all those amps and melted. 0.6 wire was never meant for anything more than sheet metal. (1.6mm max)

 

[baconbarm]

Theres a hell of a lot of shroud melted away in the photo, did you not notice it burning away as you welded?

The shroud looks quite narrow, is there a possibility that molten metal contacted from the tip to the shroud to cause this?

Ive used similar torches in the past and the shrouds needed frequent cleaning of dross, otherwise they would literally bung up on themselves.

 

[mazza411]

I think your right about the wire, but it managed okay welding for a good 15-20 seconds non stop before and then suddenly went after I bought the new neck! I didn't have time to notice it happened so quickly,
I've been keeping the 0.6 wire on as I will eventually attempt to do bodywork on my car but I might try some thicker wire for practicing on this and see if it helps.
Thanks,
Matt

 

[mazza411]

Also I did notice quick build up in the shroud before but assumed it was because there was a lot of spatter when the gas wasn't working.

 

[Wallace]

Are you moving slowly to build up the weld size? That shroud looks like it has been dipped in the weld pool.

 

[zardoz]

Also I did notice quick build up in the shroud before but assumed it was because there was a lot of spatter when the gas wasn't working.

Well it would have spattered more thats for sure. Try some anti spatter past or tip dip. You shouldnt really need to clean the nozzle/shroud out more than once a session. Many welders on here can go weeks without any appreciable build up (not me)

What LPM are you using for the gas ?

 

[Welderpaul]

0.6 won't cope with the current and will constantly ball up and melt everything. I would be welding 5mm with 1.2mm wire.

 

[mazza411]

Come to think of it Im quite sure that i might have touch the weld pool with the shroud as posted above by Wallace, I have been practicing welding on some old wings i picked up with a much lower current so i am having no issues any more with melting things! If I need to weld anything thicker I will purchase some thicker wire to do the job.
Thanks for all your help
One quick question about gas, the flow of gas from my small regulator and bottle seems to be quite weak, fine for thin metal but pants for anything larger, will this issue go away when I upgrade to a larger regulator and pub gas bottle?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Wallace]

A pea shooter flow meter like this is a handy item to have so you can check the flow from the nozzle. The bigger regulator and pub/BOC cylinder will give you better control over the flow.

 

[Ed.]

then to be honest it might just be a case of the 0.6mm wire probably couldnt take all those amps and melted. 0.6 wire was never meant for anything more than sheet metal. (1.6mm max)

Sorry zardoz, but I have to disagree with you about 0.6mm wire only suitable for 1.6mm sheet metal, I have on quite a few occasions welded up 6mm plate with 0.6mm wire and have had it between 125-130 amps as it's limit, this is running at about 25-26V at about 17mt-18m/minute wire speed. I think that a lot can be said for the machine running it as probably a lot of the smaller units will not cope as they either don't have the voltage output or the wire speed neccesary. But I don't have any problem with running the 0.6mm wire on mine.

I am currently welding up a table saw using this wire and it works well with no problem of making a good weld. Avarage metal thickness ranges from 2.5mm to 6mm. I actually posted up a test sample of a 6mm plate a couple of days ago for another member here, this sample I bashed quite heavily and the bead didn't break. I will add it here so you don't need to go searching for it. It can be done with excellent results using a good machine and you are an experienced welder.

Cheers

Ed.

 

[zardoz]

Agreed, if your machine is one that can spit the wire out fast, then the heat will never have the chance to back up in to the gun.

Although i think your quoted "about 17mt-18m/s wire speed" is a tad optimistic. 17 to 18 meters per second ?! Surely you mean per minute