Chinese Plasma Cutters Safety Warning!

[marknotgeorge]

I had a listing removed because I was offering a choice!
MIG spares kit... "Please state size of Contact Tip required with order, 0.6/0.8 or 0.9mm"... and they took it off!! Contested it, not a chance. Big stick American business (getting their arses spanked now with the sub-prime fiasco though eh!).
weldequip

Simple way round that is to say "0.8mm tip supplied, let us know if you want a different size". Works (or worked) for us.

 

[zardoz]

Why would ebay not want you to offer a choice ? Is it because they want you to list them all individually ? ie: ebay get more money if you do it that way ?

 

[irondarren]

First comment is, read the thread regarding chinese plasma cutters, there are safety faults with them. Doesnt mean to say the TIG units are the same, but i am saying its chinese quality.
For something of any quality like an IFL 200 hf or Lorch 180hf, you are looking upwards of about £900 in a ready to weld package, both spot on bits of kit (i have the IFL 200phf), does exactly what they say on the tin. (Matt will argue his lorch180hf is better than the IFL), both come with a good guarentee and service back up and are next generation TIG's which are software driven. But they are over 4 times the price of the chinese one.

Scratch start is fine on a good quality machine, just means to say you need to scratch the tungsten against the work piece to start the arc, HF is obviously better as there is no chance of tungsten contaimination, having said that you aren't doing welds for the nuclear industry so it may not be such a problem

 

[peterd51]

Hi jcorralo,

just a minor point but the voltage on an ARC or a MIG terminal is a lot less than the voltage of a TIG or plasma cutter.

That's why there's a problem with exposed wires on some of the Chinese sets.

Regards
Peter

 

[irondarren]

just looked at it, maybe im going brain dead or something. MMA 5-160 amps maximum consumption 3.7kva 160amps@ 26 volts = 4160kw = 5.2kva. 26volts being about the right voltage for amperage on MMA with closed circuit. If the machine was 100% effcient this would mean a close curcuit of 18.5volts. So does the MMA switch actually raise the voltage, as MMA requires more voltage than TIG, or is the plate incorrect. But the plate is a legal requirement? and legally has to be accurate to confirm to EU standards?

Matt, weldequip you guys have more experience than me, what is the score?

 

[Drains]

Hi jcorralo,

just a minor point but the voltage on an ARC or a MIG terminal is a lot less than the voltage of a TIG or plasma cutter.

TIG is normally a lower OCV than MMA Peter, if the set has an MMA/TIG option.

Mig can be anywhere between 12v and 42v (and more)
MMA could be as much as 85v OCV.

 

[irondarren]

TIG is normally a lower OCV than MMA Peter, if the set has an MMA/TIG option.

Mig can be anywhere between 12v and 42v (and more)
MMA could be as much as 85v OCV.

98volts OCV on my EWM 140 and 100volts OCV on my IFL unit, which generally means any old rod can used in them, including the freak rods that require 80 volts OCV

 

[marknotgeorge]

Why would ebay not want you to offer a choice ? Is it because they want you to list them all individually ? ie: ebay get more money if you do it that way ?

That's exactly right. If you list, say, a t-shirt and say it's available in S/M/L, they'll remove it for 'fee avoidance'.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

yes, thanks for the update.

I was getting confused with the plasma cutter inverters and TIGs thinking the voltages were the same.

Sorry!

Regards
Peter

 

[irondarren]

Thats about the strength of it with ebay 'fee avoidance', other than that i dont think they really care

 

[weldequip]

Chinese Machine Safety

A safty memo received this afternoon from the Technical Director at Portamig, quote:

"Most of the cheap Inverters being offered for sale on eBay do not comply with EEC regualtions, ie no proper CE certification, no ROHS/WEEE certification, no EMC Filters fitted & some of it is actually dangerous. Some of the Plasma Cutters for instance have torches connected on the front panel like a TIG torch which can be lethal & is illegal to sell".

We already know of one that has been withdrawn from the market by Trading Standards because of "Significant electrical safety concerns" & that was through a major UK wholesaler!!
Just be careful lads... is it going to take a death before they get their acts together?!
weldequip

 

[lexi]

Why is he sending safety memo to you Steve , You don`t sell em and neither does he......

Alex

 

[irondarren]

lexi its a general thing in most trades that information gets passed from various people in the same trade. I get phone calls from various members of the competition warning me of scams and non payers etc, why should the competition warn me? wouldn't it be better for me to get caught for a few grand and go out of bussiness? then the competition would get my share of the work. No not at all the majority of us all have respect for each other, and yes we would be agressive when pricing a job to ensure the competition doesn't get the work but thats where it ends.
From Portamigs point of view the last thing you want to see is one of your sellers in court for selling equipement that is totally illegal to sell in this country, it can as a whole get an industry a bad name.

Steve this is a very worrying trend and as per useual nothing will happen until somebody is killed or injured by this substandard machinery, but of course for the person that bought it in good faith assuming it was safe, it will be to late for them.

 

[irondarren]

Just a thought and i dont know, what the legal rules are here but would Ebay be breaking the law by allowing these machines to be sold, and in theory if that is the case and someone was injured or killed i assume Ebay could be sued for a few million?

Can see injury lawyers having a field day and ebay going bankrupt if that was the case

 

[weldequip]

Why is he sending safety memo to you Steve , You don`t sell em and neither does he......

Yes they do. They have finally bowed to consumer pressure & import a range of Inverters. This is after trawling all the factories in the Far East and selecting which they regarded as the best.... even then, they have done a considerable amount of their own design re-work & in house mods. They have been very particular in ensuring all relevant safety standards/legislation is met & each machine undergoes a thorough internal/external QC/Weld test before dispatch. Whatsmore, they back them with a 2 year warranty & guarantee parts & service availability for a minimum of 10 years after sale. You won't get that on fleaBay
weldequip

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

so I connected a meter to the nut on the air-feed and switched on...no voltage reading.

Then I pressed the torch switch and it zapped the meter and blew the fuse even though it was set to 1000 V AC.

I guess that this is the HF start voltage and the actual cutting voltage is probably less but I don't know for sure.

The nut is 22mm across the flats, 25mm point to point, and I reckon a bicycle handlebar end rubber would nicely cover it.

If I widen the hole in the 'blunt' end and ease it over the nut, then slide it along the cable, I could fasten the nut (with the power off) and slide the handle-grip over the whole thing to make it safe.

Regards
Peter

 

[irondarren]

I would imagine its when that HF start goes that would be the problem, certainly enough to give you an electric shock, possibly enough to stop your heart. Make sure you insulate it as well as you can.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

I emailed the German supplier asking for a copy of the CE certifiacte but had no reply...

but TBH I didn't expect one.

I emailed Ebay asking if they could check these sets and got a response thanking me for my suggestion.

I reckon it'll need Trading Standards taking Ebay to court to get anything done...

Dunno what's best, make a fuss and point it out to Trading Standards?

It's not really anything to do with me but I'd hate to hear of someone being hurt.

With the numbers being sold recently someone will eventually touch the air feed with their hand on the torch switch...

it only takes a slight leak if they haven't tightened it up fully, they press the trigger, no arc, or they hear the leak and without letting go of the trigger they reach across to tweak the nut.

What's that BBC consumer protection program?

Regards
Peter

 

[shiftyseamus]

Hi, I plan to turn up a ptfe sleeve to cover the connections(as per pic in the other thread). Once I have made one I will post pics and should be able to make them for other members for the cost of postage.

Perhaps Peter could have one to test as well?

Seamus

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

thanks for the offer...

I'll try the handle-bar grip first.

I have a couple kicking around the workshop somewhere but I tidied up when I moved the lathe in a couple of weeks ago...

Regards
Peter