gas bottle dispose, skip, abandoned rant

[gaz1]

after going through these forums and have had a very interesting read up about gas bottles
i hope you gas companys on here are actually reading this post

i think i now understand why people used to

dump the bottles
skip the bottles
or leave them at the work place or building when it goes bust or being sold/reposessed property

theres just no incentive to return any gas bottle what so ever the only one that does is the orange calor gas bottles

ive always wondered why gas bottles was being dumped seen enough of them in grass verges in a load of dumped rubbish

as been in the building trade for years
ive skipped loads of gas bottles from buildings restaurants, pubs over the years as by the instructions of the owners of the property the onus falls upon the skip company then to get rid of them

so after buying a mig welder im so glad i didnt get a gas bottle with the purchase as id be so over paying the odds for it ( ebay or cash sale ) just for a gas bottle with the mig

as ive seen often on ebay freeads migs with gas bottles not realising the gas bottle dosnt belong to you like most other people out there that have bought them thinking its got everything to get me started on mig welding

gone to gas company for it being refilled for the company to thief the bottle of which is of coarse theft from yourself and a police matter as you have the receit for the goods

it would be up to the gas company to actually prove that the bottle is there property with receits and manufactorer dates for the bottle as the matter is under dispute the gas company can neither use the bottle or store the bottle upon there business grounds
( but as there so big they would win in the end )

its a shame they are not actually big enough to stop the sales of these products on places like ebay and freeads (shame on you ) but are very quick at theft from prospective clients, some bottles are in a very dangerous condition

heres a few pics of those bottles that where people are gonna get robbed the 4th pic of bottle is dangerous to me the 1st sold for 29.00 ive seen an argon bottle sold for price of rental and gas that you could buy elsewhere and be able to take the bottle back for an exchange

the last 2 bottles are pub bottles all sold via ebay and freeads sections


after all said and done if boc, Adamsgas, air products and the other companys offered an incentive for the return of there bottles by mig welders or any other company or householder

it would be the same for the pub bottles an incentive for the return of there bottles
( this dosnt include theft of the product as may happen thoe )

the mig welders would get a better purchase price instead of the full price charge say 20/30% discount upon the rental and filling of the product they are wanting too purchase and at least they get there bottle back again

its also the same with the pub gas as well house holder whats the disposal of the bottles so wouldnt it be better if a mig welder could get some sort of an incentive by contacting them for collection and being asking if he could aquire a bottle or 2 for there projects

 

[rtbcomp]

I've taken Calor bottles to the local stockists. Bit galling that I didn't get any deposit back though!

People always want propane & butane bottles for re-filling to avoid paying a deposit, these bottles appear on Freecycle from time to time.

 

[Dev]

I paid a £40 deposit on my gas bottle, that's my incentive to bring it back!

 

[backpurge]

In the vast majority of cases the gas bottles are not the property of the "ebay seller" in the first place so they have no right to sell it as it is legally someone elses property, it's the same as you hiring a car and then advertising it for sale

This being the case why should someone pay to get their own property back?

 

[Fazerruss]

gone to gas company for it being refilled for the company to thief the bottle of which is of coarse theft from yourself and a police matter as you have the receit for the goods

it would be up to the gas company to actually prove that the bottle is there property with receits and manufactorer dates for the bottle as the matter is under dispute the gas company can neither use the bottle or store the bottle upon there business grounds
( but as there so big they would win in the end )

The proof is stamped on the top of the bottle ie "property of BOC" and you don't get it filled it is exchanged of another full bottle so you never keep the same bottle anyway.

 

[Justme]

I paid a £40 deposit on my gas bottle, that's my incentive to bring it back!

If your talking about a calor gas cylinder then good luck with that.

Read the T&C's its almost impossible to get the deposit back.

 

[rtbcomp]

.......

This being the case why should someone pay to get their own property back?

If they've charged a refundable deposit the deposit should be refunded when the bottle is surrendered, subject to the point Justme makes!

 

[backpurge]

If they've charged a refundable deposit the deposit should be refunded when the bottle is surrendered, subject to the point Justme makes!

If a refundable deposit has been paid by the person who originally took out the cylinders I agree 100%, but if that person then sells the cylinders to try and make a fast couple of quid the right to reclaim the deposit has surely been lost

 

[rtbcomp]

That's fair enough, and is probably in the T&Cs referred to. You would have to present the original invoice as well I suspect.

 

[Dev]

If your talking about a calor gas cylinder then good luck with that.

Read the T&C's its almost impossible to get the deposit back.

It's not, it's an argoshield bottle.

As for having your cylinder taken off you, look on the bright side. They didn't report you to the police for handling stolen goods.

 

[gaz1]

In the vast majority of cases the gas bottles are not the property of the "ebay seller" in the first place so they have no right to sell it as it is legally someone elses property, it's the same as you hiring a car and then advertising it for sale

This being the case why should someone pay to get their own property back?

The proof is stamped on the top of the bottle ie "property of BOC" and you don't get it filled it is exchanged of another full bottle so you never keep the same bottle anyway.

so if not the property of ebay seller wouldnt it be fair saying that it should be the gas companys taking on ( ebay freeads ) to stop the sale of goods that dont actually belong to the seller

they used to be an exchange on the bottle

If it belongs to one of the major suppliers, BOC, Air Products etc then they always own it so if you try to get it exchanged but don't have a contract they'll simply thank you for retrieving their stolen property and get you to take out a contract if you want gas.
'Short' and 'curlies' spring to mind unfortunately.

One way people used to get round it was by doing what was known as 'the two bottle shuffle'.
Say you obtained an empty BOC cylinder, you'd open a BOC account and collect an identical cyl.
After a short period of time you'd take your empty one back and cancel it from your contract.
Hey presto, you now have a full cylinder which is off their radar as as far as they're concerned you have no cylinders in your name. Once it's empty, do the same again.
Don't think it's possible to do that any more with BOC though, I seem to recall their cyls now have ID tags which are traceable.

so nowadays much easier to just dump or skip the gas bottle if your not the owner ( no incentive to return gas bottle )
pubs are the worst for this non removal of all bottles even after phone calls for the removal of them

I've taken Calor bottles to the local stockists. Bit galling that I didn't get any deposit back though!

People always want propane & butane bottles for re-filling to avoid paying a deposit, these bottles appear on Freecycle from time to time.

If your talking about a calor gas cylinder then good luck with that.

Read the T&C's its almost impossible to get the deposit back.

builders actually know that so the bottle is sold to another builder or for that gas barbeque but at least it has an incentive for return of the gas bottles for an exchange of bottle

It's not, it's an argoshield bottle.

As for having your cylinder taken off you, look on the bright side. They didn't report you to the police for handling stolen goods.

as by the comment it would be the onus for them to get onto ( ebay freeads ) to stop the sale of goods
weve ( most ) all done exchange of bottles but at least the bottle is back into the system much better than been dumped, skipped or just plain abandoned

after all calor has it right ( incentive ) return the bottle for an exchange so no deposit has to be paid much better than
boc or major gas companys return bottle and we will take it off you ( end of )

 

[gaz1]

after all said and done why should I or anyone else return a gas bottle back too the place when all they will do is take it off myself

ringing the company for collection isnt the best at times can take weeks or months for the collection or even never

this was given via another post

hi gaz1 this is the website you need for your help in getting this problem sorted out www.kegwatch.co.uk.
frankly im suprised the brewery even suggested scrapping the barrels, no scrapyard would even take them as there are a very great possibility of being prosecuted for trying to do so.
hope this helps

its just far easier to dump, skip than wait for any sort of collection from them
or sell to the idiot on ebay, freeads that dosnt know any different ( these people are just as bad as the gas companys )
im just waiting for the gas companys to jump all over this

safety first

 

[Wozzaaah]

so if not the property of ebay seller wouldnt it be fair saying that it should be the gas companys taking on ( ebay freeads ) to stop the sale of goods that dont actually belong to the seller

They do, often.

after going through these forums and have had a very interesting read up about gas bottles
i hope you gas companys on here are actually reading this post

Oh, believe me Gaz, they are.

so after buying a mig welder im so glad i didnt get a gas bottle with the purchase as id be so over paying the odds for it ( ebay or cash sale ) just for a gas bottle with the mig

as ive seen often on ebay freeads migs with gas bottles not realising the gas bottle dosnt belong to you like most other people out there that have bought them thinking its got everything to get me started on mig welding

Not if the cylinder is a non-rental type. In that case the deposit has been paid so whoever paid it loses their money and as they're not marked 'property of acme gas' then how do you know who to return it to for exchange?

gone to gas company for it being refilled for the company to thief the bottle of which is of coarse theft from yourself and a police matter as you have the receit for the goods
How can it be stealing from you if the cylinder is clearly marked 'property of...'?
It can't be theft if it's not yours to start with, receipt or no receipt!

it would be up to the gas company to actually prove that the bottle is there property with receits and manufactorer dates for the bottle as the matter is under dispute the gas company can neither use the bottle or store the bottle upon there business grounds
( but as there so big they would win in the end )

See above!

its a shame they are not actually big enough to stop the sales of these products on places like ebay and freeads (shame on you ) but are very quick at theft from prospective clients, some bottles are in a very dangerous condition

Covered above.

heres a few pics of those bottles that where people are gonna get robbed the 4th pic of bottle is dangerous to me the 1st sold for 29.00 ive seen an argon bottle sold for price of rental and gas that you could buy elsewhere and be able to take the bottle back for an exchange

Robbed?
Why do you feel the 4th one is dangerous?

the last 2 bottles are pub bottles all sold via ebay and freeads sections

Pub bottles can be bought outright so no valid argument on that one.


after all said and done if boc, Adamsgas, air products and the other companys offered an incentive for the return of there bottles by mig welders or any other company or householder

it would be the same for the pub bottles an incentive for the return of there bottles
( this dosnt include theft of the product as may happen thoe )

If they gave you money for returning their cylinders it would create a market for stolen ones.

In the vast majority of cases the gas bottles are not the property of the "ebay seller" in the first place so they have no right to sell it as it is legally someone elses property, it's the same as you hiring a car and then advertising it for sale

This being the case why should someone pay to get their own property back?

Well said!

If a refundable deposit has been paid by the person who originally took out the cylinders I agree 100%, but if that person then sells the cylinders to try and make a fast couple of quid the right to reclaim the deposit has surely been lost

And again, see my quote a couple of lines up.

after all said and done why should I or anyone else return a gas bottle back too the place when all they will do is take it off myself

Because it's theirs and not yours?

I've not come across anyone else on here who's found the concept of ownership of gas cylinders quite so confusing, it really is simple, you BUY it from them, it's YOURS, you RENT it from them, it's THEIRS.

 

[the snooper]

you BUY it from them, it's YOURS, you RENT it from them, it's THEIRS.

you make a wood burner from it, theyll never see it again

 

[Wozzaaah]

We're talking shielding gas.

 

[gaz1]

if i had one of those bottles of which i dont

after reading on these and other forums gas bottles are non exchangeable and they will be removed from your possesion

i can assure you the gas companys

the simple truth and is what happens most of the time
like so many out there, they dump the bottles anywhere than waste there time putting it into car/van having it taken off myself once at gas depot

its much better and easier to organise a contract with yourselves just collecting the bottle and walking away with it and less weight been transported on the vehicle

or id sell it on ebay, freeads and be one of the unscrupeless sellers on there

ive seen a bottle go with a bang on many occasion i actually understand the damage that they can do but many a householder dosnt

yeah you may quote me in the safety aspect quite rightly like so many others ive skipped your gas products ( bottles ) often

after reading and learning what ive read the simple answer is you want the bottle collect it yourself if i can be bothered to

a, find your phone number
b, waste time and money on a phonecall to you to collect your bottle and wait months for you to show up and collect it ( you can deliver them quickly, but your a swine on collecting them )

you will more likely find it in the skip for the skip man to take instead some skips have exploded due to the gas bottles stashed within them

or the poor skip fella has been fined for tipping dangerous goods upon the waste site for having no knowledge of the gas bottles been there

like ive said before theres just no incentive to return your products unless you have a paid contract with yourselves

 

[backpurge]

It ain't rocket science, if it's a cylinder you have legitimately, the encouragement to take it back when it's empty is you will still be charged rental for an empty bottle if you don't. If it's a hookey cylinder you have "aquired" why should someone bust a gut to take it off your hands to suit your convenience.

Between the 3 main gas companies there are somewhere in the region of 20,000,000 cylinders floating around the UK at any one time, they don't have the manpower to drop everything and rush out to collect the odd cylinder at a minutes notice.

 

[Wozzaaah]

You're still failing to grasp the jist of it Gaz.
Here it is in fewer words;

If you rent the cylinder then you'll pay rent on it all the time it's in your possession.
If you lose a cylinder that you hold under a rental agreement then you get stung with a huge bill for a lost cylinder.
If you buy a lost cylinder that belongs to a gas company then it's theirs and if you try to exchange it, you've merely returned their lost goods!

Simple question which I'd like you to answer, if you find something in the street is it yours to keep?

 

[Welderpaul]

I've had a few cylinders that belonged to AP, BOC that found their way into our possession.

I've rung them up and asked them to collect; they have been round within a few days to pick them up and take them away. I don't see its any great imposition to pick the phone up, ring the free phone number and get them to collect. I know i'd much rather do that than dump it in a skip or leave it lying around, empty or not. We had 2 acetylene cylinders a few months back; BOC were round the same day to pick up.

I struggle to understand why you have an axe to grind with gas suppliers?

 

[Robotstar5]

Simple question which I'd like you to answer, if you find something in the street is it yours to keep?

If it's a 6 foot stacked blonde, I'd love to keep it!