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ronan
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Yeah true , but you can buy a bonnieville for £6,300 new and that has a near 900cc lump and nice sitting position.
If someone was looking for 2k for a frame that cost pennys to produce i would be look into making my own, they are a relatively simple tubular structure after all, i don't mind anyone making a fair and reasonable profit , it makes the world go round, but i refuse to be gouged.
pedrobedro
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Did you watch the video of the thin wall birdcage tubing being jigged and hand brazed ? If that is a simple tubular structure I wouldn't like a complicated job.
CRB
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Everymans' view of value for money is different. If I had 6k to spend, and I wanted a Moulton, I would buy one. The same goes for a Ferrari from (insert year because I do not know one from the other).
Does not make me wrong, just differing values.
The fact that most of you chaps are capable of making the frame is admirable in its' own right.
Does not make me wrong, just differing values.
The fact that most of you chaps are capable of making the frame is admirable in its' own right.
Obviously people are spending £6k on Moultons through their own choice but it still doesn't make them good value for money, it just means the buyers don't have a good perception of value for money.
The design is undeniably good but good design itself doesn't bestow justification for overcharging. Lets compare it with the top end MX or Enduro motocycle that would also cost about the same. The design of these machines is absolutely cutting edge with some very advanced manufacturing and production engineering but for the same price the buyer gets a racing 4 stroke engine, incredible suspension, very sophisticated frame, complex brakes, very robust wheels, etc, etc, and will give many seasons of competative racing reliability in conditions that would destroy any bicycle in a few hours.
Somehow it makes a pushbike with the same price tag look a little inadequate.
The traditional hand made card is just being overplayed.
I reckon a Moulton clone could be made for a few hundred quid at most if it were made efficiently and sold realistically. Same goes for any of these overpriced ATB princesses.
I love trick bicycles but would never pay even a tenth of what is being asked for them new.
The design is undeniably good but good design itself doesn't bestow justification for overcharging. Lets compare it with the top end MX or Enduro motocycle that would also cost about the same. The design of these machines is absolutely cutting edge with some very advanced manufacturing and production engineering but for the same price the buyer gets a racing 4 stroke engine, incredible suspension, very sophisticated frame, complex brakes, very robust wheels, etc, etc, and will give many seasons of competative racing reliability in conditions that would destroy any bicycle in a few hours.
Somehow it makes a pushbike with the same price tag look a little inadequate.
The traditional hand made card is just being overplayed.
I reckon a Moulton clone could be made for a few hundred quid at most if it were made efficiently and sold realistically. Same goes for any of these overpriced ATB princesses.
I love trick bicycles but would never pay even a tenth of what is being asked for them new.
ronan
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I have to agree with tigler , the handmade thing is done to death. They are basically saying they have to charge so much for the things because the business is inefficient and they aren't selling enough of the things to get the money together to automate a lot of the machining and welding.
I don't know much about bicycles anymore , ever since i discovered bikes with 1 liter engines are vastly more fun, i do know about guns though and the likes of holland and holland and purdey are spinning the same yarn, our guns are the best in the world yadda yadda yadda , still you can buy a spanish or italian or german gun of similar quality and made of the same materials for 1/6th of the cost of a london made one. I think the extra money is spent paying for the name stamped on the side.
I don't know much about bicycles anymore , ever since i discovered bikes with 1 liter engines are vastly more fun, i do know about guns though and the likes of holland and holland and purdey are spinning the same yarn, our guns are the best in the world yadda yadda yadda , still you can buy a spanish or italian or german gun of similar quality and made of the same materials for 1/6th of the cost of a london made one. I think the extra money is spent paying for the name stamped on the side.
Shox Dr
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Sorry but I have to disagree with you two (Tigler Ronan)
You will be able to sell a Moulton/H&H/Purdey for pretty much what you bought it for, some yrs later and if you are lucky you will make on that. Yes you might have paid "over the odds" for it. But it shoot with a Purdey or a H&H rifle or Shotgun is a different level.
When I used to sell Boulder bikes plenty of people used to say WFT when price was talked about, that or they knew about the bikes because of the cost. But after riding one, I never ever found anyone saying it was crap. Just they wished they could own one.
How much is you Bonny going be to worth in 2yrs never mind 6, OK after 40, but in that time you will have spent a good deal of money on that bike keeping it running. You won;t find the same problem with a Molton/Purdey*/H&H
(We'll not speak about how much it cost to have the old fellas Purdey rebarrelled OK
)
You will be able to sell a Moulton/H&H/Purdey for pretty much what you bought it for, some yrs later and if you are lucky you will make on that. Yes you might have paid "over the odds" for it. But it shoot with a Purdey or a H&H rifle or Shotgun is a different level.
When I used to sell Boulder bikes plenty of people used to say WFT when price was talked about, that or they knew about the bikes because of the cost. But after riding one, I never ever found anyone saying it was crap. Just they wished they could own one.
How much is you Bonny going be to worth in 2yrs never mind 6, OK after 40, but in that time you will have spent a good deal of money on that bike keeping it running. You won;t find the same problem with a Molton/Purdey*/H&H
(We'll not speak about how much it cost to have the old fellas Purdey rebarrelled OK
)I'll call your argument and raise you another,
From what I see of the secondhand market for high end MTB's and cycles they don't fetch a fraction of their original price after say, 5-10 years. However, my 37 YO Ducati 750 Sport is now worth over 20 times what it cost new.
Purdy shotguns are like Morgans cars, they have their own advocate market that keeps used prices high, but the enlightened know the truth
From what I see of the secondhand market for high end MTB's and cycles they don't fetch a fraction of their original price after say, 5-10 years. However, my 37 YO Ducati 750 Sport is now worth over 20 times what it cost new.
Purdy shotguns are like Morgans cars, they have their own advocate market that keeps used prices high, but the enlightened know the truth
Shox Dr
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I agree for the most part high end MTBs are vastly over priced, however you are talking about mass produced bikes, yes they cost a loat of money but their target market are young and impressionable.
your duk is just a purdey in different clothes.
your duk is just a purdey in different clothes.
Must challenge that, Purdys have always relied on wealthy buyers who have more money than sense but the Ducati was a bike that earned it's reputation and has now become appreciated for it's superlative qualities and aesthetic excellence, a genuine classic.
Shox Dr
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I challenge your challenge sir
my father bought his Purdey in the early 70s I remember him buying it. It had a crack in the stock, and was one of a pair (No1 Gun), I forget how much he paid but it was less than 300quid. Had the stock replaced, by the insurance co. And Im sure he had it rebarreled in the last 15yrs. For not a lot of money certainly before the current cost of circa 30K+ 
Talking of Purdeys, a bloke he knows inverted a duplicator to make the sidelocks beofre they were made singularly. Purdeys I believe bought the system and employed him to run them, got him to train a guy up and them sacked him, as the story goes.
my father bought his Purdey in the early 70s I remember him buying it. It had a crack in the stock, and was one of a pair (No1 Gun), I forget how much he paid but it was less than 300quid. Had the stock replaced, by the insurance co
. And Im sure he had it rebarreled in the last 15yrs. For not a lot of money certainly before the current cost of circa 30K+ Talking of Purdeys, a bloke he knows inverted a duplicator to make the sidelocks beofre they were made singularly. Purdeys I believe bought the system and employed him to run them, got him to train a guy up and them sacked him, as the story goes.
ronan
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I think the answer is snobbery , pure and simple, you have something that only a select minority have. If purdey or h&h are so great how is it the absolute best shots in the world use perazzi's or beretta's etc to win olympic medals etc.
Its something that certain brands have aspired to, belstaff motorcycle clothing for instance, used to be reasonably priced but are now through the roof.
Its something that certain brands have aspired to, belstaff motorcycle clothing for instance, used to be reasonably priced but are now through the roof.
Shox Dr
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I don't think so, not for everyone, I remember my dad saving every penny to buy that Purdey, I also remember him spending every penny (much to my mothers dismay at times) he had on David Lloyd rifles.
Two faults with your Beratta/ Perazzi argument:
have you seen the price.
Purdey nor H&H make competition guns
Two faults with your Beratta/ Perazzi argument:
have you seen the price.
Purdey nor H&H make competition guns
ronan
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I don't think so, not for everyone, I remember my dad saving every penny to buy that Purdey, I also remember him spending every penny (much to my mothers dismay at times) he had on David Lloyd rifles.
Two faults with your Beratta/ Perazzi argument:
have you seen the price.
Purdey nor H&H make competition guns
Ok , substitute aya in place of perazzi or beretta
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Well who's he anyway ?! Seriously though, I was referring to my sport but having said that, Stoner got results out of the Ducati !
On the shotgun argument, there are guns still made in Birmingham that would equal Purdy, it's only when Purdy were taken over by some luxury goods company that their prices went stellar.
Seriously though, I was referring to my sport but having said that, Stoner got results out of the Ducati !On the shotgun argument, there are guns still made in Birmingham that would equal Purdy, it's only when Purdy were taken over by some luxury goods company that their prices went stellar.
Prices of all bikes has gone through the roof though. Can't see me ever buying a new bike again, I just won't pay that much. Quite fancy an MV 4 though, the early F4's can be had for peanuts now ! They are very pretty bikes with some very sexy details.
ronan
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Problem is the little lovely's who go around nicking them and breaking them for spares. a ten year old gixxer thats worth next to nothing is as much fun on the road and if its swiped who cares.
Shox Dr
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Now your talking I have a 750 amd 110 slabside. Admittedly both in bits. I hope to turn the 750 into a supermoto come big traily this winter
