Workshop wired wrong? Welder wired wrong?

[T.E.D. Jordan]

I'm not sure if this is the right section, but I'd assume so.

I recently got my welder up and running and its welds perfect....when it doesnt trip the breaker.

Its 220amp welder (Lincoln Electric) and It uses a 32amp 240v plug. I installed an appropriate socket by teeing off the ring main in my workshop, which has a 32amp breaker at the box, no more than 10 metres away at the main feed to the building.

When I weld it depends what I do, but if i say, tack a piece in position first then go to weld, it will 30% of the time, trip the breaker (about setting 4 of 6 power-wise on the welder, more-so maybe on the higher settings) 30% weld itself to the nib and trip mid-weld after a few inches and 30% never be a problem.

Any suggestions as to what I've got wrong here as aside the welder I've never had a problem with electrics in the workshop and the wiring is maybe only 4 years old.

Is my breaker box too low a rating? Or can someone suggest another cause?

Jordan

 

[Robotstar5]

Does sound like it's drawing too much current for the mcb. What input current is on the data plate on the welder?.
Ideally you should have a seperate final circuit for the 32A socket from a C curve mcb.

 

[brightspark]

by rights u shouldnt tee off the ring main with anything more than a spur feeding a 13 amp socket . apart from that fitting a 30 amp socket wired in the ring would work but more than likely u have fitted a b type breaker. a - c type would be more apropriate to take the inrush current . if it still tripped at full load current u would need to check the manafacturers spec on the input current requirement for the welder and upgrade as nececary

 

[rocketron]

Have a portamig 285, same 32a setup. will weld ok at high end, but if the wire hits the job "a bit hard" on weld start, the 32a breaker trips. Now I'm no expert but it appears that if there's a ball at end of wire it tends to trip it oftener. But if you stop and start welding and the ball is glowing, or just hot, it tends to behave itself. So I snip the ball off if cold.
Maybe a similar prob, don't know. Got me flummoxed though.

 

[brightspark]

Have a portamig 285, same 32a setup. will weld ok at high end, but if the wire hits the job "a bit hard" on weld start, the 32a breaker trips. Now I'm no expert but it appears that if there's a ball at end of wire it tends to trip it oftener. But if you stop and start welding and the ball is glowing, or just hot, it tends to behave itself. So I snip the ball off if cold.
Maybe a similar prob, don't know. Got me flummoxed though.

if theres a ball at the end of the wire to start off with it will take a higher current to melt it hence the tripping problem

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

As an experiment, try it with 0.6mm wire this takes much less current to melt it

 

[Luke]

As already mentioned, sounds like your breaker isn't the correct type for the inductive load of the welder. C (or D) type curves should handle the inrush current much better.

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

Thanks for the input guys, I got some pictures as requested. Took a few general shots also to give an idea of the area its in/the power source.

32 amp 240v plug with the take-off from my ring main:

Far left 32amp breaker is the one that trips. The box feeds only my workshop, ring main. The 40amp is wired to my hand-shower:

Sheet of info:

Back of welder:

Jordan

 

[brightspark]

tech data states 34 amps full load . next size up is 40 amp. the 30 amp mcb is b type changing it to a c type will help. failing that u will have to up grade cable plug and socket to a 40 amp mcb if u want to run full load .

 

[Robotstar5]

tech data states 34 amps full load . next size up is 40 amp. the 30 amp mcb is b type changing it to a c type will help. failing that u will have to up grade cable plug and socket to a 40 amp mcb if u want to run full load .

Trouble is, the next size up from 32A socket is 63A? big & expensive

 

[brightspark]

Trouble is, the next size up from 32A socket is 63A? big & expensive

that is verry true but dare i say just upgrade the cable and circuit breaker to 40 amp and stick with the 30 amp plug without getting shot down in flames by the do it by the book squad because thats all i would do even if it isnt by the book. it will never cause any problem or overheat

 

[Robotstar5]

that is verry true but dare i say just upgrade the cable and circuit breaker to 40 amp and stick with the 30 amp plug without getting shot down in flames by the do it by the book squad because thats all i would do even if it isnt by the book. it will never cause any problem or overheat

I'd do the same but couldn't recommend it on a forum

 

[madkayaker]

Does it need to be on a plug or would hard wiring in be fine? A 32 c or d (subject to sufficient fault current to cover disconnection) will not spit the dummy with 34 amps. Or even better use a proper 32 fuse (bs88). As all ready said it should not be taped of a ring circuit as you are now putting 32amp on a cable rated for 25 (all current is on one leg of the ring) that's a fire weighting to happen

 

[HOUNDMAGNET]

If this workshop is part of a domestic property,then the work has to be done,or at least checked and signed off by a Part P qualified and registered Electrician.Not doing so,will invalidate your house insurance should there be a problem.

As said above,use a 32A socket but have it wired to its own 40A type c breaker,supplied by 4mm cable,considering the short distance.

In addition the cables feeding your twin socket should really be enclosed in trunking or ideally in a workshop enviroment,metal conduit..

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

This is all great info guys thanks!

The mcb next to my 32 amp is a 40, I could tap into that line as it runs along a beam right above my current socket. Its not ring main if that matters, but the wire is a heavier weight.

I'll prob get lol'd at here.....would another option be to plug into my 3 phase somehow? i.e. take a live, neutral and earth from that supply/ use a 3 phase plug and just wire it to only use the required supply?

Jordan

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

If this workshop is part of a domestic property,then the work has to be done,or at least checked and signed off by a Part P qualified and registered Electrician.Not doing so,will invalidate your house insurance should there be a problem.

As said above,use a 32A socket but have it wired to its own 40

Its in a standalone shed off the property

Jordan

 

[HOUNDMAGNET]

Its in a standalone shed off the property

Jordan

as it stands the work does still need to be signed off by a qualified spark im afraid...its about insurance issues..or safety

 

[julieanncharters]

as it stands the work does still need to be signed off by a qualified spark im afraid...its about insurance issues..or safety

its the sparky police
nothing stopping anyone doin there own electrical work at home.
everything on sale in B&Q to do the job is a bit of a giveaway.
what insurance issues .................
rentals are a different story.
Part "P" rarely enforced so no one gives a ****.
unless like me you do it for a living so its conform to the rules or let some scrote no win no fee yer ****.
nothing like a good rant

 

[keith19]

Surely what you are thinking of doing constitutes a replacement?

"Repairs, replacements and maintenance work are not notifiable."

If you are replacing an existing cable and breaker that is a replacement, not new work. The regs make no mention of a difference of 8 Amps.

 

[T.E.D. Jordan]

In summary using the 40A breaker in my existing box is a no-go, it has to be a Type C Unit? I take it this means I'm going to have to install a new box

Argh!

Jordan